Colt New Service, what did I buy?

So I went to look at an FN High Power this morning but someone got to it before me. So I ended up with this Colt New Service, it's not the prettiest thing but it has a good bore and is mechanically sound. It was advertised as being in .45 Colt and due to the lack of any military proofs or markings I took their word on that, yeah I no first mistake. The obvious steps in the cylinder and the fact that it absolutely will not chamber .45 Colt blow that theory out the water. The serial number is 230xxx by the way and Colt's site shows it as being made in 1919. I found some .45 acp in my stash and it chambers with the rear of the case slightly out of the cylinder, looks like it would fire. I'm guessing it's time to find some moon clips? I have .45 acp dies, no brass or bullet mold and those things are hard to find right now.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IMG2148-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IMG2149-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kyle M.

Did the .45acp guns have stepped chambers?

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Yes, they could chamber a cartridge without the little half clips and then you'd need a clearing rod or use the clips and eject them. They headspace on the case mouth. .45 ACP would be my preference. I have several clips I can throw in an envelope and mail you...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Yes, they could chamber a cartridge without the little half clips and then you'd need a clearing rod or use the clips and eject them. They headspace on the case mouth. .45 ACP would be my preference. I have several clips I can throw in an envelope and mail you...

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Thank You! I would greatly appreciate that, I can PM you my address. I found 500 pieces of once fired large pistol primer brass for a not ridiculous price, just need to find a decently priced 230 grain mold, I already have .452" and .454" sizers.

I'll get those shipped in an envelope soonest, they've been here since my 625 S&W...

That should have US Army Model 1917 forward of the lanyard swivel, and No. (Approx. 80,000) rearward of the swivel on the butt frame. The wooden grips have been replaced with civilian grips. It was built in 1918.

It was not uncommon for former service members to smuggle these out of the Army, and to scrub the US property marks.

See this excellent data collection thread on the Colt forum. You should be able to find a serial number close to yours. Unfortunately, member, haggis, passed away a few years back and no one seems to have picked up the baton to keep the survey running.

https://www.coltforum.com/threads/co...numbers.34787/


Here is what it once looked like:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Ii0Qkpml-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fMRhIA9l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Coq1wv4l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DbELZeUl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jYmJPeDl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...K1nIjJ5l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...og5oJCdl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Lkoa6bol-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g3caBL5l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6KiArMQl-1.jpg

Some markings may still be present once we see some closeup pics...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin08

That should have US Army Model 1917 forward of the lanyard swivel, and No. (Approx. 80,000) rearward of the swivel on the butt frame. The wooden grips have been replaced with civilian grips. It was built in 1918.

It was not uncommon for former service members to smuggle these out of the Army, and to scrub the US property marks.

See this excellent data collection thread on the Colt forum. You should be able to find a serial number close to yours. Unfortunately, member, haggis, passed away a few years back and no one seems to have picked up the baton to keep the survey running.

https://www.coltforum.com/threads/co...numbers.34787/


Here is what it once looked like:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Ii0Qkpml-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fMRhIA9l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Coq1wv4l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DbELZeUl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jYmJPeDl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...K1nIjJ5l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...og5oJCdl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Lkoa6bol-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g3caBL5l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6KiArMQl-1.jpg

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Thanks for the info. It looks like the markings on the butt and the U.S. property marks were scrubbed. I will get some close up pictures later today. I’m curious about that “S20” stamp mine appears to have “S26” in the same place.

Well I managed to get a few pics, they may not be the best as I didn't have enough light to not use the flash. It's looking like the markings were most likely scrubbed. Also I now see that the S26 I thought I saw is in fact S20.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IMG2154-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IMG2155-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IMG2156-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IMG2157-2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin08

That should have US Army Model 1917 forward of the lanyard swivel, and No. (Approx. 80,000) rearward of the swivel on the butt frame. The wooden grips have been replaced with civilian grips. It was built in 1918.

It was not uncommon for former service members to smuggle these out of the Army, and to scrub the US property marks.

See this excellent data collection thread on the Colt forum. You should be able to find a serial number close to yours. Unfortunately, member, haggis, passed away a few years back and no one seems to have picked up the baton to keep the survey running.

https://www.coltforum.com/threads/co...numbers.34787/


Here is what it once looked like:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Ii0Qkpml-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fMRhIA9l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Coq1wv4l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DbELZeUl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jYmJPeDl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...K1nIjJ5l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...og5oJCdl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Lkoa6bol-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g3caBL5l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6KiArMQl-1.jpg

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i checked your link and managed to find a 1917 within 300 serial numbers of mine delivered on June 22, 1918, thanks again.

The Eagle over S20 is done by an inspector at the Springfield Armory, when it was accepted for military purposes.

Yours surely had the US property marks and Army number scrubbed. Fortunately, the serial number is inside the crane recess of the frame on these revolvers, and the serial did not get scrubbed.

Just out of curiosity I’m wondering with this revolver not being made until summer 1918 what are the chances it made it to Europe during WWI?

I don't think the markings were removed, they're pretty deep and you'd have to take a lot off...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I don't think the markings were removed, they're pretty deep and you'd have to take a lot off...

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Did they make a commercial model in .45acp? It has a G on the left side of the butt under the grips, which I read elsewhere noted a government contract. It also has the S20 mark on the upper left of the frame.

Assuredly an M1917 US Property pistol. As it was made in the summer of 1918, it most likely went directly to Europe as the major offensives were being implemented, and all available arms were being shipped. Mine, from the last week of Oct 1918, probably stayed stateside, and hence the very good condition.

Commercial New Service pistols were not accepted at Springfield Armory.

Many thousands of M1917 and/or M1911 sidearms were erased of their US property markings after the Great War. This is a well documented phenomenon. Nothing new here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin08

Assuredly an M1917 US Property pistol. As it was made in the summer of 1918, it most likely went directly to Europe as the major offensives were being implemented, and all available arms were being shipped. Mine, from the last week of Oct 1918, probably stayed stateside, and hence the very good condition.

Commercial New Service pistols were not accepted at Springfield Armory.

Many thousands of M1917 and/or M1911 sidearms were erased of their US property markings after the Great War. This is a well documented phenomenon. Nothing new here.

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Thanks again. I figured that Springfield Arsenal marking was a dead give away that it wasn’t a commercial model.

There were also Government inspectors at the Colt factory, and they marked major parts with their stamp. Your barrel still has a visible inspector stamp, and you will most likely see one on the rear face of the cylinder. Mine is marked by the letter 'H'.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...h6x7k1sl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TuR5pTtl-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin08

There were also Government inspectors at the Colt factory, and they marked major parts with their stamp. Your barrel still has a visible inspector stamp, and you will most likely see one on the rear face of the cylinder. Mine is marked by the letter 'H'.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...h6x7k1sl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TuR5pTtl-1.jpg

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Yes there’s an H on the rear of the cylinder and what appears to be an H on the underside of the barrel where it meets the frame.