Dated Houghton Butcher Manufacturing Company No32 Mk1 Scopes.

Just something that I've mused over for a while. Houghton Butcher scopes are generally undated, except for the very first few of the first production batch. I have only ever seen a couple in the flesh, & have only ever owned one. I was wondering, if other forummers have early HBMCo scopes, whether we might be able to home in a little on when exactly (in terms of serial numbers) they stopped dating them? My guess would be that it stopped before 3,100............but I really don't know. I can't remember the serial of the other one I saw at a Bisley arms fair many years ago, but I think it bore a rather higher number than mine.......maybe around 3040, or thereabouts.

Any contributions most welcome!

scope serial number 3329 is not dated, couple hundred away from your guess of 3100.

Greetings Roger

I can help a little, I have pic's of 3057 which is dated and 3142 which is not (and 3180 just to confirm). Narrows it down a little.

Many thanks gents. Much appreciated. I've had quite a lot of HBM Co scopes go through my hands over the years, including some earlyish examples, but now wish I'd noted all of their details before selling them! I'm pretty sure they'd stopped the practice before 3100, but interesting to know that at least 57 would seem to have been dated. It's only a minor detail in the No4 T saga, but something I've been curious about.

Cheers.

3057 was one I bought from H.W. English in 1986 and later polished and had blued.

Still looking for the matching scope for my 1933 trials T

Hello Roger,

I have two Houghton-Butcher examples on a couple of rifles. Undated, with pics attached.

I've got no.4933 here. No date.

I’m looking for 3193 for my trials.

I recently found a list of scopes I bought in 1986/87:

1941 Watson: 1272, 1402, 1734
1942 Watson: 1810, 1822, 2281
1943 Watson: 2610, 2710, 2791, 2756, 2538

HBMCo. 1941: 3057
HBMCo. (undated): 3503, 3549, 4484, 4749, 4891, 5218, 5251, 5354, 9765, 10055

KL 1941: 6389, 6514, 6593, 6873, 7204

There may have been a few others that I considered beyond repair - can't be sure now.

I think a few of those ended up back on this side of the Atlantic!;)

Looking for 1766 for my early Savage too.

Hey Surpmil,

KL scope 6389 is now living atop one of my 1943 T's. After a trip through Roger's hands, it is a wonderful shooter!

I have a Houghton Butcher Serial No 4658 undated of course . It’s in a Roger Payne mount (if you remember Roger I checked the mount with you) I wanted a Houghton Butcher scope as my mum lived on Walthamstow during the war and remembered their factory.

I've got number 4895 in my possession - not dated

Jim

Thanks everyone who has provided info on their scope serial numbers. I'm pretty sure HBMCo had stopped dating them by the time they got to 3100, so if I'm right we're looking at a hundred dated scopes at most, & quite possibly rather less. We know 3057 was dated, so the change to omitting the date must have occurred somewhere between 3058 & 3100, assuming the application or omission of the date was done consistently.

If anyone knows of any HBMCo scopes in the serial range 3058 to 3100 or thereabouts, details would help us narrow down the changeover somewhat. It's only a minor detail in the 4T story, but it's just a little itch I'd love to successfully scratch!