Hello everybody,
I would like to try my hand at the realization (replica of a case, for n ° 4 T) someone can tell me with which wood they were made? Thanks in advance to those who will answer!!!
Cheers linpao
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Hello everybody,
I would like to try my hand at the realization (replica of a case, for n ° 4 T) someone can tell me with which wood they were made? Thanks in advance to those who will answer!!!
Cheers linpao
Aren't they plywood?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonP
I think mine is Pine.
Mine is pine as well
I couldn't speak with authority on all the woods that might or might not have been used for making transit chests from time to time, but all the ones I've seen have been pine.
Attachment 116613Attachment 116614
The chests are pine with hardwood inserts.
The correct way for the sides is two pieces joined by a biscuit.
Insides are sometimes maple and other hard woods from the local area.
The Canadian HCF chests will have different materials inside due to the area they were made and what was available locally.
My 99 year father in law worked for HCF that made the chests in Canada before going overseas in WW 2
HCF also made the cheek pieces for the No.4(T) and some samples I picked up in the area are pine.
Would love to see a photo of a pine cheekpiece example Warren; never seen nor heard of them made from this wood. Birch, ash & beech, & walnut for UK & Canadian production, respectively, is all that I have personally encountered to date. Were they stained?
Thank you guys, the pine has knots, and in an original that I have I don't see knots (typical of pine), I will look for what I find among birch, ash, beech or walnut. Let's see the timber merchant what he has available, thanks again. linpao
I think the plans state the carcase been made of "Deal" Knot free pine. with the inserts made in Beech (or other authorised hard wood),
Modern pine is quick grown with all the knots that it brings, old pitch pine flooring could be a source of knot free pine ( old army folding tables are also a good source)
Rodger, were original cheek pieces ever produced in Walnut? I have been told they never were (I know reproductions are now been made in Walnut)
Hi skiprat. I've never seen British cheekpieces in walnut, but if not all, most Canadian cheekpieces are. There are also a few minor variations in shape both in UK produced & Canadian 'pieces over their production history.
The Canadian ones were walnut.
Memories of an RCME Armourer >
Looks like, according to Hank, some were also beech, birch, or maple. Never seen one in maple that I can recall, but plenty in beech & a few early examples in birch, though these last were all UK production for UK rifles, not Canadian. Would be interesting to know if, in practice, cheekpieces other than walnut, were ever produced in Canada & issued on Canadian rifles. Or at least, it would be interesting to a geek like me........
My wife thinks I get excited by the strangest of things. She's probably right.
Now to get the picture to show!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
Attachment 116622
The right hand row upper and lower are pine.
The lower one has obviously been stained.
They are well beat and weathered as a number of them came from the old HCF factory before being torn down, which was across the road from my father in laws feed mill.
There is a Canadian walnut one or two in the pile and the one top row center is Canadian marked on the inside. The Canadian ones were new when I got them. Apparently there was still some in the system up until a few years ago; wood unknown.
The rest are walnut and one of the lighter ones appear to be maple.
deleted
Quite a variation in size and shape!
Quite. Aside from the different woods used I've seen three subtle but distinct variations in shape of Canadian cheekpieces.......there may well be more.....that's just what I've noticed over the years.
Warren, are all of those 'pieces shown in your photo of HCF, or at least Canadian, manufacture?
The ones on the right hand side are from HFC.
They were found in the factory when it was being torn down and given to my father in law to give to me.
Had I know at the time they were tearing down the place I would have been there like a dirty rat.
Truck loads had already gone to the dump (tip) and it was several months later that I found out about it.
I was given several of the others by armourers in the local area and western Canada.
Some are marked C arrow and an inspectors mark.
I have a P14 sniper with a cheek piece that is a period piece by the look of it and I am 90% sure it is pine.
I'll try and get to it and take a picture.
Thanks Warren. I thought some of them looked British, some Canadian. It's only my anecdotal observation, but I suspect that at least some of the early UK production cheekpieces were made from birch, & stained to give that characteristic orangey-brown colour not too dissimilar to Savage wood. We then seem to have gone over to beech, which accounts for the majority of British CP's, but with a substantial number made circa 1944 (& sometimes seen on 1945 rifles as well) made out of what I thought for a long time was oak, but which I have been advised is much more likely to be ash. Most unadulterated 1944 rifles I come across seem to have these ash examples fitted.......they're my favourites - I much prefer ash to beech; it seems a lot denser & more damage resistant.
Warren, in the real world, have you come across many Canadian rifles fitted with cheekpieces other than walnut? I was wondering if HCF just experimented with other woods, or if they actually got issued to an appreciable extent?
Roger:
That has been my opinion for years on a lot of the stuff we run into.
Was it done as a full run for just trial to see if the wood was sufficient for war time or as they said war time expedient?
In my digging into HCF and talking to my father in law I found they shipped boat loads of lumber to the UK in pre sawn blanks.
You must remember that a lot of the forest in the area where HCF was located was as close to virgin old grown forest as you will find.
There are pine trees here that are 6 feet plus in diameter at the base that the tree huggers are still trying to protect.
Our climate of 80 deg C difference between winter and summer produces good wood.
I order wood for our seniors wood club and I can get a lift (200 board feet) of clear pine with nothing under 12 inches wide and 8 to 10 feet long and not a knot in it.
I picked up 200 13 inch wide pine boards by 8 feet long for $1.00 a board: 75 P UK, 80 Euro's or 75 cents US.
Not sure what it would be now as wood has skyrocketed.
I used to bring pre sawn walnut over to the UK for a chum that make chests for pistols. More problem to fumigate it that it was worth, but he appreciated it.
Anyhow, I digress and run on as normal.
Picture of the old cheekpiece on the P 14 sniper will be attached later today.
Hi guys,
thanks for all the news, with a cold mind I came to a conclusion, I will make it in pine wood, looking for well seasoned boards and possibly without knots, there are old carpenters who have old pine boards in their workshops, while for the internal parts they used a harder wood, perhaps beech.
I have often wondered by what mysterious process the front shapes of the cheekrest were arrived at. I defy anyone to make sense of it, and then they were put on so far up the butt that the hand could not get around the wrist and the damn thing digs into the side of your thumb...
The Long Branch cheekrest is much simpler.
Agreed! I've noted three different patterns of LB cheeckpieces, & others may have noted more. I suspect the early (non-sequential conversions, or at least at their outset) had cheekpieces closer to the UK pattern, but in walnut. Then there are the two commoner but subtly different patterns seen on 71L & 90L rifles. Perhaps Warren, Lee Enfield or others with a particular interest in Canadian kit could clarify/refine this further??
But forgive me as I see I've wandered off topic somewhat!
At long last, the picture of the P14 cheek piece.
It MIGHT be beech by the grain and hopefully someone can ID the wood
We had a huge book on wood species at the wood club but someone needed it more than us.
Attachment 117120
Looks very much as a beech wood .
Hi Warren - looks like "Beech"....maybe "Maple". Steel screw countersunks are plugged - what material was used? Do you think this was typical? what is hole spacing? Ron (Canada)
IIRC from what PL has mentioned in the past, assuming I understood him correctly, the cheekpieces were originally intended for issue on the No3 (T) early in WW2, but were also approved for the new (as it was then) No4 (T). I'm not sure if they required any modification to fit the No4 butt, but if they did it can't have been much. I must try offering a 'standard' UK 4T cheekpiece on a P'14 (W) stock, & see how it sits...
Of the modest number of 4T cheekpieces that I've seen that were or had been fitted to early production No4 snipers' rifles, a lot of them differed slightly in the contour of the inletted 'notches' at the front, especially the one on the left (safety catch) side, & most were made from stained birch, similar in colour to typical Savage woodwork. Having said that Warren's doesn't look like birch...... The trouble with these things is we don't know at what point the cheekpiece was fitted to the rifle. Is there provenance for the rifle Warren??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
The form of the cheekpiece that Warren has shown matches the original one fitted to my '33 dated Trials 'T', backing up Roger's commentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
You moved me to check my '31 Trials rifle waco, & the CP on that is of the same pattern, too. My '33 Trials has a replacement later war 'run of the mill' example on it.
In looking closely at the cheekpiece and the grain I think it is beech.
The plugs look a bit like maple or poplar.
The only provenance on it is that I have had it since before dirt was invented and the chap I got it from had it for almost as many years as well.
Apparently the reason that we find so many variants on the cheekpieces is that it was the ONLY item on the rifle that a sniper was allowed to modify.
Touch anything else and you were on charges or dead meat, but with the cheekpiece you had free reign.
I cannot say if or if not it is typical as all my other Pat.14 snipers do not have cheekpieces.
The one I showed is the only one with a cheekpiece in both the P14 and the trials.
I do however, have a trials rifle with a lace on leather cheekpiece and I have had it since the early 70's and have no reason to believe that the chap I got it from added it.
He had trouble even doing up his shoes .....
A picture of the lace on cheekpiece please.