No4 Bolt Advice

I have a No4 that I obtained a couple of months ago. It is nothing remarkable and based upon past assistance on this site, I know it was made in 1943 and spent time in Turkey. The bolt serial number does not match the receiver serial number. After a few days of work, it cleaned up pretty well. It was definitely uncared for for many years.

The rifle shoots and functions fine except for 2 problems -

1. When pulling the bolt back, it seems to stick at a certain point and requires extra effort to pull all the way back. I have 2 other Enfields (a No 1 and an Ishapore 2A1) and they do not do this. I have tried oil, grease, and functioning the bolt rapidly many times, but it still hangs up in that one position (please see photos).

2. During firing, the bolt will sometimes stick in the down/closed position and will not move upward and back to extract the spent case. Application of significant force is needed to function the bolt. It does this every few rounds but functions properly (other than Problem 1 which is also noticed during use).

I am new to No 4's so any knowledge or advice would be helpful in solving these issues. Thank you!

Bolt isn't matched to the action, and binds? Try another bolt and see if it does the same.

Bolt/head too long?

Two different problems, and I'm sure there are many ways of approaching them. Here's my 5c:
- The bolt sticking when moving back and forth: is this the bolt head in its guide that's sticking, or the bolt body? Sort this out by trying the action with the bolt head removed; if still unclear, I'd colour the whole surface of the bolt a felt tip permanent marker in a dark colour e.g. blue, move the bolt in and out several times to get it to stick, and see where the blue has worn off.
-If primary extraction [i.e. lifting the bolt] is too hard this may indicate your chamber is a bit rough or pitted. A peep with a $10 bore scope may confirm this. If so, there are many ways to polish the chamber. One method is to spin in the chamber a fired case smeared with metal polish - see Polishing A Chamber With A Fired Case?
If doing this method, I suggest trim the fired case at neck before using.

RobD advice is a good starting point but if its not serialed to the rifle then is the bolt fitted correctly! As they are not plug and play like say a Barnard action think one of the more experienced here said they are a helical lock up with certain points needing to engage equally to be safe. One wonders if the barrel has been replaced by a bubba and the action has been slightly twisted as PL said they twist like spaghetti if you set it up wrong with the incorrect gear. PL also suggested using a slave bolt in the action whilst doing the barrel change I seem to recall.

There is a whole variety of possibilities that I can think of, & I'm not an armourer. One thing I have discovered from bitter experience over the years, & which no one has yet touched on, is that the original bolt is mated to its particular body by careful fitting in the factory & then by proof firing to 'set up' the fit of the bolt lugs in the corresponding locking lug recess/against the resistance shoulder. Just putting in any old replacement bolt is likely to result in a difficult or sticky cycling, especially the initial uplift from the closed position (primary extraction with a cartridge in the chamber). Careful hand fitting by very gentle stoning, &/or the luck to have a plentiful supply of replacement bolt bodies is a big help here. Over the years I have amassed a number of 1941 to 1945 produced BSA Shirley bolt bodies for exactly this reason, for the rebuilding of 4T's. You will likely need to hand fit to some degree regardless, but a bolt from a rifle from the same factory & made the week before, is quite likely to be a lot closer than one made elsewhere years earlier/later.

I would also endorse the above posts about how easy it is to distort a rifle body if attempting to rebarrel it using inappropriate tools.

I have some time today so I will look into those suggestions. I don't think the barrel has been replaced as there were no markings or indicators that the barrel and receiver had been separated. The wear/patina matches throughout. My thought is that while in the possession of the Turkish army, the bolt was lost and replaced with this bolt. Can I test the fit using the bolt from my No 1?

It won't fit.

Would a bolt from a No 5 serve as a good test?

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Originally Posted by Singer B

Would a bolt from a No 5 serve as a good test?

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To test for 'fit' ............... Yes it will fit.
To use it to test firing the rifle ........................... NO, it will not have been adjusted to properly fit your No4

Thank you sir. I just won an auction for a No 5 and hope to pick it up tomorrow so I will try it when I get home.

Lucky you with the No.5 I mean.

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

Lucky you with the No.5 I mean.

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Thanks. I hope it is in good shape. I've only seen pictures. It appears to be a BSA. I can see a couple of rust issues that will need attention and the bolt is mismatched to the receiver. I tried for a couple others over the last year but one turned out to be a fake and the other was too rich for my blood. Looking forward to picking it up, breaking it down, and starting the refurbishment process.

I'm kind'a along the lines of very judicious refurb/cleaning be kept to the absolute minimum to retain as much of its journey patina as possible. What gets me say with artillery or ordnance brass and oilers or anything brass sellers shine the bejeezer's out of it to a mirror shine and lose all its journey patina may as well be a 2021 produced piece in that case. (Pun)

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

I'm kind'a along the lines of very judicious refurb/cleaning be kept to the absolute minimum to retain as much of its journey patina as possible. What gets me say with artillery or ordnance brass and oilers or anything brass sellers shine the bejeezer's out of it to a mirror shine and lose all its journey patina may as well be a 2021 produced piece in that case. (Pun)

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I completely agree unless the rifle is a complete rust bucket and the only way to save it is to completely refinish it or it has little or no real collector value.

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Originally Posted by Singer B

Thanks. I hope it is in good shape. I've only seen pictures. It appears to be a BSA. I can see a couple of rust issues that will need attention and the bolt is mismatched to the receiver. I tried for a couple others over the last year but one turned out to be a fake and the other was too rich for my blood. Looking forward to picking it up, breaking it down, and starting the refurbishment process.

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Not another bolt mismatch...!
You may have the same problem with the No.5 if its not been matched properly.

Bolt miss-matched Lee-Enfield's do seem much more common in USA than anywhere else, no doubt many importers never understood the fact that you can't just replace the bolt of a LE with one from another rifle.

Check the left hand locking lug to see if there's a distinct drag mark when it rides over the sear. Also check the safety and make sure it's installed correctly. I see so many bolt assemblies sent here that are either out of spec from long service or because someone disassembled, cleaned and reassembled it wrong. Worse yet, they've changed a bolt head while clueless as to how they are supposed to fit and be in spec with proper bolt lift, cocking piece lift, firing pin protrusion and bolt head overturn. Read Peter Laidler's article on bolt fitting. If the rifle is a Turkish or worse yet, Ethiopian import, some or all of these problems may exist. If the left hand lug is dragging over the sear, the body is worn out or very close to it. There is a hasty fix that was allowed one time to keep it in spec but if it didn't work, the rifle was scrapped. ZF!

With regard to Enfield Bolt's; I think the best advice is buy always a rifle with a matching bolt!
It may be more expensive to purchase initially; but will save you problems such as you have with this No4.
And of course a mismatched bolt that does not fit correctly could have more serious consequences than just spending a bit more money.
It needs careful inspection; as will the No5 if it's also a mismatch.

So I picked up the No 5 yesterday. The bolts from both the No 5 and the No 4 work flawlessly in the No 5. When I tried them in the No 4, they both displayed resistance in the same exact place. This leads me to believe the problem lies with the receiver. Since I am not a gunsmith, I think I will probably take it to my gunsmith and see if he can find the cause.

Sounds like a sensible course of action.

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Originally Posted by 30Three

With regard to Enfield Bolt's; I think the best advice is buy always a rifle with a matching bolt!
It may be more expensive to purchase initially; but will save you problems such as you have with this No4.
And of course a mismatched bolt that does not fit correctly could have more serious consequences than just spending a bit more money.
It needs careful inspection; as will the No5 if it's also a mismatch.

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I wish I could only buy matching guns, but that was always a difficult thing to do when the market was flush and is now extremely difficult. I was lucky to find this No 4 and the No 5 in the current market which has gone completely crazy with COVID, the leadership change in Washington DC and the current anti-gun sentiment in California. That said, if I do find one, I will have both of these to use as trade ins! My 1917 No 1 Mk III* SHTLE is all matching so they are out here!

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Originally Posted by Singer B

So I picked up the No 5 yesterday. The bolts from both the No 5 and the No 4 work flawlessly in the No 5. When I tried them in the No 4, they both displayed resistance in the same exact place. This leads me to believe the problem lies with the receiver. Since I am not a gunsmith, I think I will probably take it to my gunsmith and see if he can find the cause.

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Does your gunsmith have sufficient knowldege of the Enfields, AND, the correct gauges to check it is not twisted or stretched ?

I'd suggest you send it to Brian Dick who is one of the top Enfield smiths in the US

Good Lee Enfield gunsmiths are like a matched SMLE bl**dy difficult to find Alans on the money spend a few dollars get it to Brian who won't faff about in either saying it is fixable or its shagged. Thing is what if you on sold it and it did go south and injure a person. I am not saying the rifle is dangerous but it has an issue that needs to be understood and rectified for peace of mind then sell it if its good to go.

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

spend a few dollars get it to Brian

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Too, that way we can get a complete poop on what the issue was so we'll recognize it when it arises again. Info sharing...

The rifle was sent to Brian today. Brian, please feel free to share any observations from it once you get a chance to diagnose it. Thanks!

Here's the report.

The muzzle, throat, and two groove bore are well in spec. The bolt, (mismatch), locking lugs bear evenly in the body and headspace is fine. Bolt head overturn is in spec. I had to adjust the bolt correctly to get correct bolt and cocking piece lift, clean and adjust the safety assembly. I disassembled the sear, mag catch and bolthead catch assemblies, inspected, cleaned and greased everything. The sear spring was worn and funky, (gunsmith term?), so I replaced it. Reassembled and tested it and it feels much better. However, I think the rear of the body behind the right hand locking lug is distorted and binding ever so slightly. It might be my imagination and I don't trust my eyes and magnifying glass enough to make a positive ID but I think there may be hairline cracks present along the bottom in the crease of the machining. Now this is a ROF(F) rifle originally produced in 1943 so the machining isn't great and it might be me erring on the side of caution so I told Walt to get it checked at a machine shop that has proper equipment to detect cracks and he agreed. Anyhow, I hope I'm wrong. If so it's a serviceable rifle as is. If not, the body is scrap. The Turk imports from what I've seen were original finish and worn but not in bad shape internally where it counts. Brian

Thanks Brian, and the services came at a great price!

Top man on Enfields.

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

...He is more than a man, He's a shiny golden god.

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Something like the last words King Herod heard. :D

Just got the results back from the xray. I am very happy to say that no cracks were found so this No 4 is going to live and still make people happy. It still has a little bit of drag on the bolt but after Brian's work, it is noticeably smoother. The best part is we get to shoot it next weekend along with the No 5 we picked up a few weeks ago.

Awesome a range report naturally.:D

Couldn't think of a better way to remember Memorial Day than take my neighbor, a Vietnam Veteran, out for a morning shoot. We took the No 4 and the No 5 I picked up and refurbished a couple months ago. Both functioned flawlessly and I was very happy! The No 4 is still not as smooth as my other Enfields, but she gets the job done. I was surprised at how accurate the No 5 was and both rifles were hitting 2'x2' squares off-hand at 300 yards uphill. My neighbor had a great time and we have decided to make it a tradition to go out for a shooting session each Memorial Day and Veterans Day.

Sounds like a great day out!
I originally read it as 2"x2" squares at 300yards!:lol:
and I thought that's a world record; until I re-read it :thup:

I couldn't achieve 2"x2" with a recon sniper standing in for me!! I was a "5 shots into 1" group at 100 yards" shooter when I was a SWAT sniper, but that was long long ago in a galaxy far far away.........