Anyone serve with IDF or Police using the M1 Carbine ?

If anyone has served in Israel using the M1 Carbine,
We have a few questions for you.
We often see M1 carbines that served in Israel with the number 50 stamped on the stock near the Recoil Plate or the side near the rear sight. Most often we find the Carbines serial number stamped on the left side of the stock. And sometimes a number stamped on the bottom of the pistol grip.

Here are pictures of a example of a Israeli used Carbine with these markings:

50...... Also often found stamped 50 near the Recoil plate, and sometimes in both areas:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine30L-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine30L-2.jpg

Attachment 116870

Israeli style stock SN# marking:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine30L-3.jpg

Pistol Grip: Small Circled Number Stamp, Most we've found have a Circled single digit stamped on the bottom often oriented differently.
Sometimes we see Non Circled multiple Larger Digits on the bottom grip, But these aren't as common on the Israeli returns.

Small Single Circled Digit Example:

Attachment 116873

Attachment 116874

What does the number 50 stand for ?
We've 'Speculated' the stamped number 50 near the rear sight or recoil plate 'Might' stand for:
Sighted in for 50 Meters.... because of Highly populated Urban Conditions.

Recently a few members ran across some Surplus IMI .30 Carbine 110gr JSP IDF/Police Ammo being offered for sale. See attached a picture of the boxed label.
Attachment 116875

Another member found this Spec Data Sheet on this IMI Law Enforcement Carbine load.
Noted in the Description it says "This round engages its target accurately up to a distance of 50 meters, providing excellent stopping power for first target hit but with significantly reduced secondary target impact. Ideally suited for use in crowded environments where secondary casualties must be prevented.... " .. Etc.
Attached below:

Attachment 116876

IF Anyone has served or Experience with the IDF, Police Forces or Security, etc and knows anything about the Stamped 50 marking your help appreciated.

Even before seeing the IMI Ammo Data, I felt the 50 stood for the Carbine being Sighted in for 50 Meters. After reading the IMI data sheet I feel that much more confident that's what it stands for. The Stocks stamped 50, 2x ? Maybe sighted in again after a front sight change.
If anyone can help... Please do. If you have a connection in Israel you can ask, Please Do.

Post here or feel free to PM me or Email me.

Thank You,

Note their ammo is soft point...

Interesting question.
I ran a village/kibbutz armory in Israel for about 4 years. I had 40 M-1 Carbines in stock and I don't recall any of the stamped markings you have shown. Now back then (1980s) I was military and much more into shooting than collecting, so I may have seen and ignored those stamps. We did use a 50 yard range for Carbine training, so that might explain the 50 mark. We only had stocks of US milsurp ammo, that IMI ammo only being produced for a short time in the 1990s.

@jonnyc,
Is this you commenting on the labels?

IMI Box Label? .30 Carbine - #2 by Fede - General Ammunition Discussion - International Ammunition Association Web Forum

Yes, but as you see Fede usually gets there first with the best info. We're convinced that he's really some kind of AI being, living in a super-computer (in Argentina), who has access to everything!

Well Thx all the same jonnyc,
I passed that forum post on to members that were looking for the label meanings.
So a 4+ year old post is still helping today.

:thup:

Always happy to translate Hebrew and give any Israeli insight I can.

Mine has a 150, 100 and 1 circled on my IDF re-import.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baconslayer

circled

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That's the outside edge of the stamp.

Regarding Israeli M1 Carbines: I was a member of the Canadian Contingent to UNDOF (United Nations Disengagement Observer Force) from late 1998 to mid 1999. Being a gun enthusiast I took advantage of every opportunity to see what the soldiers I encountered were carrying on both sides of the border with Syria. Many of the IDF still carried Galils, M16AIs, and Uzis. I also encountered a school group on a field trip to the limestone caves at Rosh HaNikra and was surprised to see the teachers were all carrying M1 carbines with U.S. marked mag pouches on the butt stock.

Pretty sad when your teachers are armed on a school excursion guess that's the way of life in those global areas pretty sad really glad I am in Aus.

A favourite terrorist tactic is attacking/hostage of school bus and children, and schools. Arming teachers makes them less tempting.

The M1 would keep would probably most students in line.

The students would know why the teachers are armed.

There hasn't been a successful attack on an Israeli school since the Seventies. Why? The Israelis hardened their schools and have armed guards and armed teachers to protect the children. We could do the same thing here but then certain groups wouldn't be able to use dead children to push their anti-gun agenda.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

The students would know why the teachers are armed.

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I thought I'd leave the smileys off and see if the joke shot over, under, or on target. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

Pretty sad when your teachers are armed on a school excursion ...

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Pretty sad if your teachers aren't allowed to be armed while being in charge of your kids.

At one of the schools that my late father attended in the 1940's the headmaster, being a WW1 veteran, would "bring-out" his WW1 Webley .455 revolver, once a year, for the school's sports day for use as a "starting gun". This would have been in the WW2 period or the years immediately after. Although my father didn't like participating in sports he liked the sports day at this particular school because he got the chance to see the headmaster's Webley revolver. How things have changed to what they are today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

At one of the schools that my late father attended in the 1940's the headmaster, being a WW1 veteran, would "bring-out" his WW1 Webley .455 revolver, once a year, for the school's sports day for use as a "starting gun". This would have been in the WW2 period or the years immediately after. Although my father didn't like participating in sports he liked the sports day at this particular school because he got the chance to see the headmaster's Webley revolver. How things have changed to what they are today.

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Not too many years ago the Governor of Texas was jogging with his dog along a city park in the state capital Austin, Texas. A coyote attacked his dog so the Governor pulled out his pistol, shot the coyote and carried on his merry way. God bless Texas, the last bastion of sanity in this world.

Hope his dog is ok?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sapper740

Regarding Israeli M1 Carbines: "I also encountered a school group on a field trip to the limestone caves at Rosh HaNikra and was surprised to see the teachers were all carrying M1 carbines with U.S. marked mag pouches on the butt stock."

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Don't know if I could find it now, but a few years ago there was a thread in our M1 Carbine forum discussing their use by Israeli teachers and others seen on the streets there. It was pointed out that in most of the pictures, the Carbines didn't look like they had magazines in them. Did you notice that when you were stationed there? I thought they may have had 5 round mags - or maybe were required to keep the mags out of the gun until needed. Can't remember what the consensus on that was. :dunno: - Bob

I found several links with the answer. Here's a couple of them - Now I remember!

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....419#post337419
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...i-tour-guides/

Basic safety precautions. No magazine in rile means accidental discharge is much less. Loaded magazines are immediately available. Low threat environment.

Just ran across this post, if it helps, mine is an Israeli import with left side stamped stock, no range numbers near the rear sight.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...db7a5e40-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by USGI

Don't know if I could find it now, but a few years ago there was a thread in our M1 Carbine forum discussing their use by Israeli teachers and others seen on the streets there. It was pointed out that in most of the pictures, the Carbines didn't look like they had magazines in them. Did you notice that when you were stationed there? I thought they may have had 5 round mags - or maybe were required to keep the mags out of the gun until needed. Can't remember what the consensus on that was. :dunno: - Bob

I found several links with the answer. Here's a couple of them - Now I remember!

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....419#post337419
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...i-tour-guides/

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Since Rosh HaNikra is right at the Lebanon/Israel border and the fact there have been sea-borne attacks against Israeli citizens launched from the Southwest corner of Lebanon the teachers I saw had their mags inserted in their rifles. I checked out the links you posted and kudos to imarangemaster for knowing the difference between Duck Hunter and Beo Gam.