Lee Enfield No 4 Mk1 from an auction

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04-26-2021, 02:21 PM
DJCee73

1 Attachment(s)

Lee Enfield No 4 Mk1 from an auction

I just recently purchased from an online Canadian auction for $425 a Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1 that has been "sporterized" however it was sold with both front and rear handguards and all 3 barrel bands. Hopefully they are original to the gun. I will post pictures after I pick the gun up from the auctioneer. I do have the auction listing picture which is attached. I hope some of you knowledgeable folks on here can help me find a full military forend as I'd like to return her to her former WW2 glory. This is my first foray into classic military firearms so if I say or ask something stupid I apologize in advance.
04-26-2021, 03:05 PM
browningautorifle

Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 complete wood set MARSTAR CANADA

Try Marstar, he shows stock on hand and he's local to you. Looks like new wood too.
04-26-2021, 03:10 PM
DJCee73

[quote=browningautorifle;498061]Try Marstar, he shows stock on hand and he's local to you. Looks like new wood too[/quote

Thanks Jim....but I'd have no idea how to finish the raw wood set they are selling, I'm a noob!
04-26-2021, 03:13 PM
browningautorifle

You use some fine sandpaper or scotchbrite and stain... I use Watco Danish oil. Not much to it. There are other finishes of course.

You could also message these guys and see... Lee Enfield Restorations - Restoration Process
04-26-2021, 06:00 PM
Singer B

Original wood from the factory was finished in raw linseed oil. Its very easy to apply and smells like your grandma's house.
04-29-2021, 06:18 AM
Longlee

[QUOTE=DJCee73;498062]

Quote:

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Try Marstar, he shows stock on hand and he's local to you. Looks like new wood too[/quote

Thanks Jim....but I'd have no idea how to finish the raw wood set they are selling, I'm a noob!

You should know that the Lee Enfield action and barrel is not just a drop-in stocking up process. If this furniture is new then there is a lot of fitting needed to get it right.
04-29-2021, 08:09 AM
browningautorifle

Quote:

Originally Posted by hhunter44

You should know that the Lee Enfield action and barrel is not just a drop-in stocking up process.

I may have heard that once around here, thanks for the heads up...
04-30-2021, 12:17 AM
DJCee73

7 Attachment(s)

some new pictures after I picked up the gun from the auction. Looks like the bolt serial # doesn't match the gun number. Any idea where this one was manufactured?
Attachment 117018 Attachment 117019 Attachment 117020 Attachment 117021 Attachment 117022 Attachment 117023 Attachment 117024
04-30-2021, 02:37 AM
Alan de Enfield

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJCee73

some new pictures after I picked up the gun from the auction. Looks like the bolt serial # doesn't match the gun number. Any idea where this one was manufactured?

RoF Maltby - Yorkshire England

The giveaway is the prefix number 1 in the serial number (this was allocated to Maltby as their 'code'), and of course the letter M is the shortening of 'RoF Maltby'

1XXXX = Maltby
2XXXX = Fazakeley
3XXXX = BSA
XCXXX = Savage
XLXXX = Long Branch
04-30-2021, 04:28 AM
mrclark303

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJCee73

some new pictures after I picked up the gun from the auction. Looks like the bolt serial # doesn't match the gun number. Any idea where this one was manufactured?
Attachment 117018 Attachment 117019 Attachment 117020 Attachment 117021 Attachment 117022 Attachment 117023 Attachment 117024

Welcome to the Maltby club!

Take your time and carefully read through the various bedding and wood refinishing articles. Pay particular attention to Peters bedding instructions in the enormous 'how to' data base above.

It's hugely rewarding getting it right and there's no better way of really understanding what happens regarding the various forces that come into play, when you pull the trigger...
04-30-2021, 05:53 AM
30Three

Regarding the bolt number. Have a close look at the rear face of the bolt handle. Normally the serial number would be stamped there; not on top as per your photo. (At least both my Maltby made No4's are at the rear).
So maybe that number is something else.

Also, I'm not sure if the 300/600 flip sight would be original for a 1942 rifle. Hopefully one of our more knowedgeable members can confirm!
04-30-2021, 06:52 AM
mrclark303

Good point Shaun, never seen a Lee bolt marked on the top, unless this was done by an Armoury to see numbers while the rifles were in the rack perhaps??

As per the flip sight, I 'think' they came into service in 1942, along with the other austerity parts, to try and speed up production....
04-30-2021, 01:24 PM
DJCee73

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30Three

Regarding the bolt number. Have a close look at the rear face of the bolt handle. Normally the serial number would be stamped there; not on top as per your photo. (At least both my Maltby made No4's are at the rear).
So maybe that number is something else.

Also, I'm not sure if the 300/600 flip sight would be original for a 1942 rifle. Hopefully one of our more knowedgeable members can confirm!

ya you are correct I was looking on the top of the bolt instead of the back of the handle and upon further inspection the both serial numbers match!!! very happy about that!!
05-01-2021, 10:16 AM
DJCee73

I'm such a noob!! The more I read the more I'm learning about these rifles. I just realized mine has the spring door in the butt(steel butt plate) and to my surprise there is a Mk 4 brass oil bottle and brass string pull through in there!!!
I have no idea if this is the correct one given to the rifle upon completion of manufacturing. I believe I see the < denoting government property and I think EFD denoting manufacturing at the Enfield factory(hard to see as brass is dirty). Would this be a standard issue oil bottle for my 1942 Maltby No 4 Mk 1?
Thanks again!!
05-01-2021, 10:30 AM
Alan de Enfield

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJCee73

I just realized mine has the spring door in the butt(steel butt plate) and to my surprise there is a Mk 4 brass oil bottle and brass string pull through in there!!!

Never say never with LE's but I'm fairly sure that Maltby's we never issued with steel butt-plates, Brass, yes.

As far as I remember the steel butt plates were a temporary 'fix' for Long Branch (Canadian rifles)

The other material used (primarily by Savage and Long Branch) was the 'pot-metal' known by various names Mazac, Zamac or Zamak

(ZAMAC is an acronym for the Zinc, Aluminum, Magnesium, and Copper alloy that Hot Wheels, Dinky and other pre-WW2 die-cast toy cars are cast from).
05-01-2021, 11:18 AM
DJCee73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

Never say never with LE's but I'm fairly sure that Maltby's we never issued with steel butt-plates, Brass, yes.

As far as I remember the steel butt plates were a temporary 'fix' for Long Branch (Canadian rifles)

The other material used (primarily by Savage and Long Branch) was the 'pot-metal' known by various names Mazac, Zamac or Zamak

Thanks Alan for your reply and the butt plate does seem to be the Zamac (light dull gray) however as in your previous post based on the pictures I posted you told me that the serial # of R11641 both on the bolt and the gun and the M above it denoted its was a Maltby gun. Now I'm confused
05-01-2021, 12:30 PM
Alan de Enfield

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJCee73

Thanks Alan for your reply and the butt plate does seem to be the Zamac (light dull gray) however as in your previous post based on the pictures I posted you told me that the serial # of R11641 both on the bolt and the gun and the M above it denoted its was a Maltby gun. Now I'm confused

It suggests that either in service (unlikely) or in civilian life it was fitted with a non-Maltby butt plate.

The rifle factories were primarily 'assemblers', they would manufacture the primary components (Body, barrel & bolt) but all woodwork, nuts and bolts, slings etc etc were manufactured by other companies on a sub-contract basis. These parts would be supplied to Maltby and they would then assemble all the parts with their own manufactured components,

The 'parentage' of a rifle is by the maker of the body (action) as that is the key numbered component and everything else is 'hung' off it.
05-01-2021, 12:36 PM
DJCee73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

It suggests that either in service (unlikely) or in civilian life it was fitted with a non-Maltby butt plate.

Thanks so much for the clarification. Do you have any ideas on the oil bottle and pull through? Do you think it was a proper issue to this rifle?
05-01-2021, 01:14 PM
Alan de Enfield

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJCee73

Thanks so much for the clarification. Do you have any ideas on the oil bottle and pull through? Do you think it was a proper issue to this rifle?

EFD made oil bottles and an EFD could quite easily be issued from stores.
I would suggest that whilst a brass oiler bottle is not incorrect, it would more than likely be a plastic bottle.

I'm not an expert on oiler bottles.
05-02-2021, 04:46 PM
DJCee73

Auctioneer just called me says when I picked up the No4 I didn't get all the pieces that were supposed to go with auction. It was supposed to come with a rear sight. He sent me a picture and it is a Mk 1 sight with an F on the top left which leads me to believe it was manufactured at Fazakerley. Should I leave the Mk 2 300/600 L sight on or put the Mk 1 sight on the gun? All in all a great surprise from the auctioneer!
05-02-2021, 04:59 PM
Potashminer

OP - might want to find yourself a book like "Lee Enfield No.4 and No. 5 Rifles" by Charles Stratton. I have no clue what level of authority he is. Page 64 is a table showing a listing of the nine variations of rear sights that were used, according to him, by the 6 major manufacturers, for which years, of the No. 4 rifles. For example, as per that table, the "Mk.1" rear sight was used by Maltby during 1941 and 1942, then again from 1946 to 1955. Purely conjecture on my part, but if you considered how a rifle might be used in a serious close quarters fight, would expect that a rear sight assembly would be a part that had to get changed out fairly regularly?? So, I presume the armourers would have used whatever was "approved" and available, when they put the thing back fit for duty?
This all ignores that whatever parts might have been used by an owner at a kitchen table or basement workshop, after the rifle was sold out of service - likely 60 or more years ago?
05-02-2021, 05:06 PM
Alan de Enfield

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJCee73

Auctioneer just called me says when I picked up the No4 I didn't get all the pieces that were supposed to go with auction. It was supposed to come with a rear sight. He sent me a picture and it is a Mk 1 sight with an F on the top left which leads me to believe it was manufactured at Fazakerley. Should I leave the Mk 2 300/600 L sight on or put the Mk 1 sight on the gun? All in all a great surprise from the auctioneer!

The Mk1 sight is far superior (and will let you be more accurate), even if you don't want it you could sell it on ebay for $40 - $50 ?
05-02-2021, 07:01 PM
DJCee73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

The Mk1 sight is far superior (and will let you be more accurate), even if you don't want it you could sell it on ebay for $40 - $50 ?

Thanks Alan that's where I was leaning towards was using it due to better accuracy! 👍
05-02-2021, 11:04 PM
browningautorifle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

The Mk1 sight is far superior (and will let you be more accurate

I'd use the earlier sight as well.