Printable View
..... and wants to "inspect my licensed premises and inventory". Before I return their call I thought I'd check this out with anyone else that's been auditied.
1. It was my "understanding" that all you have to produce is your bound book.
2. You can choose to do that at their office OR your premises.
3. MY FFL is a 03 C&R FFL.
4. Since when do they inspect your "inventory" I have a collection, not an inventory.
Any quick info would be appreciated along with refrences. Thanks, Bob B.
Just had one done a couple of months ago. Like you I wondered what was up. Set appointment for agent to come to my home (saving me gas). I had bound book sitting on kitchen table for his inspection. He arrived, asked if I still collected, about how many firearms I've sold off (None but had given a few away as gifts to family). Glanced at the bound book and said looks like you have everything in order. Never requested to see any firearm. Asked me if I had any questions about my license or any procedures. The process took less than 15 minutes.
Ok Thanks, that's what I thought but when he left a message on my answering machine, regarding inspecting my premises and inventory it kind of threw me a little. Regards, BB
Intreresting that they are now picking on C&R holders for inspection -
Keep us informed as they go so that the rest of us can be aware and up to date on their "actions"
Steve :beerchug:
They probably want to see if any of us are supplying the Mexican Drug Cartels with those fully automatic AK-47's.
Will Do!
.....ATF Agent wants to see my bound book and all C&R firearms I have to correlate the book to what I have on hand. To make sure I'm keeping "accurate" records. Why didn't they call two weeks ago when I did a digital photo session to record all that I have, now I gotta dig it all out again!!!!! Sheesh!
Since when do they have so many agents that they can waste time on this?
I don't know but there seems to be a sense of urgency to get this done. I was hoping it was was an April Fools Day joke BUT this Agent has been calling 2 times a day now for the past 3 days! Been on a road trip so just got the messages off the machine. I returned his call and was told tomorrow OR Friday! So I picked tomorrow to get it done, he's got a 100 mile drive to get here anyway.
makes me nervous to get inspected, as I sold off my entire collection to fund a child custody fight. All logged to a dealer, but still dont look too good on my part. Just recently began rebuilding what I had.
Checking my bound book against my "inventory" would be a nightmare since my accumulation of firearms is stored in a haphazard chaotic fashion and I have a lot of rifles. Most of them, however, are tagged and keyed to a master list. I sold stuff on Gunbroker both last winter and this winter because of tough economic times but they're all logged in and out properly. Carl
I may be old fashioned, but thats exactly why I don't care to have any type of license. I purchase and fill out he info as reqired and thats the extent of the record. They can look all they want to any time and it's a legal purchase. At my age I don't plan on selling anything, because the way this country is heading I may need all my "stuff" to stay alive.
john
Please keep us updated RD. I'm not concerned about myself. I just like to keep informed.
Thanks,
Dean (the other one)
Don't know if you guys remember, but about eight months ago I posted a message on the old forum asking if a C&R license placed a great big sign over your house with an arrow pointing at it saying "hassle me first".
After absorbing numerous posts advising me that I was terminally paranoid (with a few truly helpful suggestions), I have to say that the forms are still on my desk untouched by my pen.
Any additional responses to add to that original post?
Phil
Phil441;
I've got nothing to be paranoid about re any C&R transactions that's why i continue to renew my C&R FFL. However there used to be a statement in the ATF Regs regarding inpections of C&R vs 01 Dealer FFL and I can't seem to locate it now. It clearly stated the 03 FFL just had to produce the Bound Book at home or the ATF office, it was the 03 FFL's choice, no mention of producing "inventory" was made. Having a C&R FFL can save you considerable money depending upon which state you live in. As long as you are doing things by the book there shouldn't be a problem. It's they ones that "danced around the regs" that have brought this on the rest of the licensees. I've got 1 year left on my 03 FFL and I may not renew as I'd don't need anymore guns, they're 99% gun safe queens as there's no easy place to go excercise them anyway. No room left in either safe so I'd rather by something I can play with without having to dive 70 miles!
Shouldn't make you nervous, you "liquidated" your collection and it all went to a Licensed FFL, no problem!!!
Thanks for all the information. I am looking at getting my C&R licence sometime in the future and never even thought that I would have a home inspection. Guess I should dust.:yikes:
Best Regards
Lisa
Uh, look in your book, I am pretty sure that is way overstepping his bounds.
I would just tell him, I will meet you AT YOUR OFFICE with my book as it states in the regs.
Dan
I wonder what he will do / say about guns NOT on my bound book???
You see we are only required to record sales & purchases of C&R's AFTER you receive your license - not all the ones owned prior - - -
So does he only want to see the C&R's that correspond to the book? or is he snoping into your entire collection???
You may want to read : http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr478.23.htm
The regs that cover examination.....
Steve:beerchug:
This comes up periodically on most gun sites.
I'm pretty sure that they can require you to show them any firearms in your bound-book, whether the inspection is at your home or their office. You only have to show weapons in the book. The appointment must be at your convenience, not their schedule. You can line your C&Rs up in your garage or other room, convenient for you, and not let them down into your inner-sanctum. You don't live in a place-of-business, and they can't inspect your house for all the security stuff required of 01 FFLs. You are not required to log C&R weapons into your book if you acquired them before you got the license, only if you are selling them while you have the license.
Does that cover everything?
On some of these audits they have asked to see only the book, but on others they have asked to see every firearm and reconcile it with the list. As dobek said, that wouldn't work with firearms owned before you had the C&R. It also is not pracatical in a large collection.
Normally an audit is a spot check. They point to an entry and ask to see the firearm then ask for a random firearm and ask to see the entry. I would recommend showing them the book then waiting to see which firearm they ask to see and go get it. In some cases that could take a lot of time. If they are able to reconcile the ones checked, they probably won't want to check them all.
Try to schedule near the end of the day, ha!
Cass
"then ask for a random firearm and ask to see the entry"
They have no need or right to ask about any firearm that is not in the boundbook, they don't even know about them. I would not bring them to my gun-room, only let them into an area convenient for them to access the guns listed in my boundbook. Anything else is beyond the scope of the 03...I think.
Like anything else, I am sure there are agents who want to do the job strictly according to the book (Bound Book, that is). They check the numbers, make sure the "I's" are dotted, the "T's" crossed.
While I don't think it is necessary for them to see your (ok, our) arsenals, they can probably legally ask to see a particular weapon to verify it to the BB. There are probably a few others who like to see arsenals and would ask for them all.
I think if it was me they were auditing, I would keep my vault closed and locked, but bring out each piece they asked about. After all, there ARE Non-C&R weapons there that are none of his, and anybody's, business.
All in all, I still think that a C&R FFL is still the best thing since sliced bread.
Hey Lisa
A vase, flowers and some doilies would be a nice touch.:)
Cary
Although the reason for isn't pleasant, at least you get to fondle your collection!Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadawg
... as a 01 and they were a nightmare. For example, I had 1 form 4473 from a guy that had bought several rifles from me. He was 70 years old and put today's date in the DOB and I didn't catch the mistake, They wanted me to get him to sign a statement that he was over 18... He had died 6 months ago! I had the dealer's license for 6 years. Then I had a C&R for 12 years and never heard from the BATFE. If you are a senior citizen (aren't we all) I would surrender or not renew my C&R and destroy my bound book. Then I could give my grand kids some pretty great and untraceable guns. JMHO:D
You have to think like a federal employee. I see 2 likely reasons that the fellas with the bulges in the cheap suits are doing this:
1) Some GM-15 made up a list of "agency objectives" so that he could justify the budget, & thought "audit C&R's" sounded like a reasonable idea that would make them look like they doing something worthwhile, or
2) Some Congressman put a rider on the agency funding bill (as has happened numerous times in the past) that requires them to bust C&R's who are abusing their licenses.
Either way, knowledgeable agency managers KNOW this is a waste of time, but, like good government managers, they accept the need to justify what they are doing, since they have done so little to reduce crime or the threat of terrorism.