HAFDASA ~ BALLESTER-MOLINA 45 ACP

I have the inside track on one of these being held for me at $550. Due to condition, I think the price is OK as one sold on Gunbroker for $799 in better condition. I may get a veterans discount on it as well.

This ones finish has gone brown. I can see some minor pitting under the grips. Bore is supposed to be very good. Grips look good, exterior doesn't look particularly worn but the color is off. On second thought, I just found a brown one on Guns International. Apparently some were parkerized brown.

Army version, I believe it is post WWII but can't tell for sure whether the backstrap number is the one I should use to date it or the serial number on the slide and barrel. They are different, they all seem to be this way. One is the serial, the other is something else but I haven't figured that out yet either. It was not accepted by the British, that much I know.

I already have the holster for it also which is a plus.

I don't care if I'm paying a little more than it's worth but I don't want to take a bath on it either. All on Gunbroker that sold, sold for more than that. Not many listed in the sold section. Those in the for sale section are all higher by quite a bit.

My actual price with veterans discount was $522.50. It’s a Cabelas gun so just points anyway. Should have it in a few days. The good thing with their new policy is there is no shipping charge. Used to be a non-refundable $25. If I don’t like it, I can get a refund.

Right now that's a bargain price, especially from Cabelas. Pictures?

These are not mine, Cabelas obviously and all I will have for a while. I just realized I will be out of town and won't be able to get it till Friday, maybe Thursday. Two day shipping, went out today. Slim possibility I could get it Sunday but very slim. Based on the photos if you think I'm getting robbed, let me know. With points, it's essentially free. I already have a correct holster for it but now need to find something else for my Spanish Star B. Spanish holsters seem to not exist. I just realized it does not appear to be import marked which is unusual. Could be in another location I guess. I did some checking and I'm in the clear. Points from credit cards are not taxable. So I'll expound on the benefits of Cabela's points system. This is the fourth free pistol I've gotten from Cabela's since August of 2019. In order, 1916 Efurt Luger with WWII issued holster, Japanese Type 94 Nambu, German production Browning 1922 and now this. And I still have $100 in points seed money.

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Glad I got the photos when I did, this particular Cabelas is on the ball and they removed the listing already.

I own a 'brown' Ballester Molina....Mine has no markings on the right side. Does have the serial number on the left side frame down low and matching number on the bottom of the slide. The barrel has some sort of six digit issue number stamped on the barrel hood.

On mine you can see beautiful blue in protected areas and under the grips. Fabulous shooting pistol. Mine came with a genuine HAFDASA magazine but mismatched number and appeared to have new coil springs installed....has really powerful hammer and recoil springs....

I don't think you got robbed at all. You didn't pay ANY cash, did you? Anyway, a good looking older pistol with tons of character that's going to function just fine and be a great addition to the collection. What's wrong with that?

Barring problem, I'm picking it up this evening. And no cash. Hoping to get a couple of boxes of ammo also. They supposedly keep some for gun purchases. I don't need it so depends on the price.

So, there were problems. I drove three hours in a detour from where I was working to hit Cabelas on the way home at 6:30. Everything goes smoothly, I look at the gun, say lets do it, processed the paperwork and was told it was pending, 3 hour wait. They close at 9:00. So I go get something to eat, told to be back by 8:30. I'm back at 7:30. 9 roll around and I'm told they will call me tomorrow when it's ready. Not happy, it's an hour and a half round trip and I just wasted 2 1/2 hours.

I call bull crap. It's a Thursday night, no gun shows no nothing, not many guns to buy anywhere. The state screwed up, not Cabela's.

In person, it's not as brown as the photos, looks more absent of finish, numbers match on slide, barrel and receiver. Magazine does not match. I could get ammo but it's expensive, going to pass.

We'll be watching when you get it...

I have been approved. Go figure. Sometimes these checks are simply ridiculous. I have bought 5 pistols from this same Cabelas over the last two years. I don't blame them, it's the process. I'm in the system, they have checked me a dozen times in the past two years. I'm cleared for working with kids, I have state police and FBI clearances out the wazzo and I still get a "pending" in a background check. I even gave them my SS number this time to avoid any complications. Computer in, computer out, I should have been done in 10 minutes.

Ours is just as redundant.

Here it is. Took about 15 minutes today.

The holster did not come with it but is a proper Argentine holster for it. I need to get more magazines now.

No import mark. Haven't taken the grips off yet so that is a possibility.

It is a wartime production pistol, probably 1943. And I'm going with it was made from the Graf Spee steel just for fun.

Bore is great.

Magazine unfortunately does not match.

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Update on the serial number. It is not 18655 as I thought because this is on three parts, the frame, slide and barrel. The serial number is 36704 which is on two parts, the slide (inside) and the frame. The barrel does not have the serial number. 18655 is some kind of secondary number. This likely moves production into the first quarter of 1945 rather than 1943. On the steel, it is not Graf Spee armor plate. They did an analysis on them. It is however a really odd steel not usually used for firearms because it's too difficult to work. So theories it was provided by the British or the US are also unlikely. They knew what it would be used for. Which takes it back to the Graf Spee. Plenty of available steel there, just not the armor plate.

"For this article a Ballester slide, serial number 19924, well within the British-contract range, was sacrificed for chemical and spectrographic analysis. The results were both disappointing and perplexing. The slide turned out to be high-manganese low-carbon steel having 1.07 percent manganese, 0.33 percent carbon and 0.19 percent silicon, roughly corresponding to SAE1033. It contained virtually no chrome, nickel or vanadium. So much for the Armor Plate Theory ... .

While the metallurgical analysis does not show that the steel came from the Graf Spee, it also does not show that it didn’t. A warship contains large quantities of many different types of steel besides armor plate. Steel with high manganese content is not an ideal choice for gun manufacture because it is tough to machine. This suggests that HAFDASA was forced to improvise with raw material salvaged from something, but unless and until more evidence comes to light, its source remains a mystery."

Melted down handrails and galley tables...

Nice looking old pistol except...the grip scales. I don't like them but they're what's supposed to be on it so...there. Odd looking holster but efficient.

Steel did not come from warship. That rumor has been debunked.

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Originally Posted by capt14k

Steel did not come from warship. That rumor has been debunked.

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It actually hasn't. No one knows where it came from. The results of the testing were inconclusive and show it was scrap steel from somewhere and a big pile of scrap sitting just a short distance away with a British salvage company steeling secrets above all. Also interviews with the people around the wreck and familiar with the salvage stated HAFDASA’s engineer Carlos Ballester Molina was present during part of the salvage.

Only thing that has been debunked is that it was the Graf Spee's armor plate. It is definitely not that. Lots of other steel in a ship however.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Nice looking old pistol except...the grip scales. I don't like them but they're what's supposed to be on it so...there. Odd looking holster but efficient.

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I like the scales and the holster, it holds two magazines which is a plus. It is a bit large however. It can be worn from a shoulder strap which is on it or a belt.

The scales are plastic not wood, they were switched about 1942. They went with the vertical grooves as it was cheaper than checkering. I have been unable to get them off. Very narrow screwdriver blade needed. A lot were exported to the US in the 1960's which explains the lack of an import mark.

Sarco actually has some for sale for $750 and $850 now, from Peron's personal guard.

It is a nice pistol. I like how it feels in the hand. It is slightly heavier than a 1911.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

It actually hasn't. No one knows where it came from. The results of the testing were inconclusive and show it was scrap steel from somewhere and a big pile of scrap sitting just a short distance away with a British salvage company steeling secrets above all. Also interviews with the people around the wreck and familiar with the salvage stated HAFDASA’s engineer Carlos Ballester Molina was present during part of the salvage.

Only thing that has been debunked is that it was the Graf Spee's armor plate. It is definitely not that. Lots of other steel in a ship however.

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Legends about the “Ballester Molina”:

* The guns were manufactured using “German steel” taken from the sunken ship " Admiral Graff Spee" ... This is wrong, the German battleship sunk, still continuing in the Rio de la Plata (between the coasts of Argentina and Uruguay) and remains an important and dangerous obstacle to shipping ...

.45 ACP Pistol: Facts and Legends | Gun and Game Forum

That is one of the most informative posts I have found on Ballester Molina pistols. I believe the author of Argentine Pistols states the same.

That's all well and good but the sources I've quoted state otherwise and they actually did a metallurgy test on one of the British contract guns and determined the steel did not come from England or the Graf Spee armor plate. They also interviewed people in both Argentina and Uraguay. While as I earlier stated, there is no definitive proof it is from the Graf Spee, that it did not come from there has not been ruled out. They know the composition of German armor plate which it is not. They do not know the composition of the Spee's deck plates which witnesses say were what was removed. It is a very odd composition for firearms. The two top contenders for the steel are the United States and the Graf Spee. Witness interviews lend credence to the Graf Spee.

I really don't care one way or the other. I think it would be cool to be from the Graf Spee but it's one of those buy the gun not the story type deals.