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I just ran up on this, some might be interested. I don't know enough about computers to link it here, maybe someone would help and do it.
Google search: m1 carbines from midway usa,... go down to #3 and click on m1 carbines for sale. WOW!
Looks like a lot of WW2 era configured M1's ????
Hope this helps. - Bob
https://www.midwayusa.com/us-militar...us-m1-carbines
I've yet to see one with a flip sight in any pics shown. I see high wood stocks, type I and II bands though.
Before Larry started Midway, they were gun dealers, this will be a chance to see it done right. If he has that many, he will make a bundle on these guns. These will go for probably $1500 for decent ones and up from there.
Prices will be over-the-top. Every forum is lit-up with this announcement. It is funny how carbines import marked are poo-poo’d until a new batch shows up then the panic sets in.
Not whining or complaining though. I will be giving consideration to purchase one like most of the rest of carbine world.
I really wonder with the statement that none have been through a rebuild. There is no doubt that some do have type 1 and type 2 barrel bands on them but they use this to tease use by not showing any tops. Oh well time will tell as it always does.
Bruce,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
Just curious and trying to learn, what would you be looking for if the tops were shown ?
Words mean things. And 'rebuild' means different things to different people. To have a discussion, there has to be some basic agreement on definition of terms. To the best of my understanding, the term was first used in the 1953 edition of TM 9-1276. If anyone can find an earlier usage in an official OD document, please cite and include a description of the scope of work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
If it should turn out that OD used the term only to mean the process described in this TM, then the examples shown in the ad appear to have had some lesser mods done to them, but not rebuilt.
The carbines have been used mostly during public order operations, as a form of display.
I don’t think they have ever been used (shot) much, but they were certainly in common use.
My first memories of the M1 carbines go back to summer 1990, during the soccer world champs. I saw them used by the Carabinieri on the heads of really “turbulent” English fans in the “Lotto” underground station in Milan. As clubs...
They worked very well.
I just took off, not being interested in trying them out.
I was coming back from university, and got into that mess...
Prior to the term "rebuild" in the 1953 edition, the term "overhaul" was used in the 1947 edition of TM 9-1276. Comparing the '47 edition's (Overhaul Flow Chart) with the '53 edition's (Rebuild Flow Chart) the scope of work looks to be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by firstflabn
If a person was interested in another carbine (Not me) this would be a good place to look. The Italians seemed to take care of the weapons we gave them, the storage containers look very clean and organized. The Ethiopian guns were filthy, shot to pieces and poorly stored. The carbine world is down to stems and seeds as they say. So this may be the last chance to get one. Larry is a good honest businessman, this should go well if the government keeps their big nose out of it. Today's carbine buyer just wants a nice gun, the bias against anything that isn't a flip sight and type 1 band died a long time ago. And as noted the import stamp isn't a deal killer anymore.
Keep in mind we're seeing Commercial carbines sometimes pulling $1250 + - on some Auction sites.
I wish all Good Luck.... :thup:
I've never been a CMP or Import marked Carbine buyer, but that's just me.
Will be interesting what buyers receive when you think about changes/mods made during WWII, Post WWII and in the hands of Allies.
I also think you might start to see a flood of RTI Carbines for sale on the auction sites of folks who bought those and now see "nicer" condition rifles that's going to be offered.
Just participated in an auction today with 16 M1 carbines in it. I was able to pick-up a Standard Pro with full type 3 refurb including the Standard Pro refurb stamp on the stock. Here are how the prices went:
Rock-Ola 1600
Standard Pro - 1100/1100/1000
IBM - 1250
Quality - 1100
Natl Postal - 1300/1200
Saginaw - 900/1200
Underwood - 1100
Winchester - 1300/1200
Inland - 1000/1000
Over J - 850
Overall, I was surprised the final amounts were as low as they were. Maybe there were so many that it caused the bidders to hold back a little? Hope that helps!
Thanks. Interesting point. The early postwar SA annual reports also use 'overhaul.' 'Rebuild' is nowhere to be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by W5USMC
So, it appears Midway was using a term with a specific technical meaning while having no idea what it meant. By the time 'rebuild' came into vogue, it only meant one thing - starting with the complete disassembly and inspection of critical parts. So, of course they haven't been rebuilt (if those pics are representative of the whole batch). If Midway had said 'water is wet' they would have gotten that one right, too.
Since they didn't address the adjustable sights, I presume they haven't heard of the MWO.
Midways description states:
"There are no records indicating how the Italian Armed Forces came into possession of these WWII M1 Carbines."
There are 146,863 Carbines listed on the Foreign Military Assistance Charts, being supplied thru MAP up to 1963 to Italy.
If I'm reading it correctly this total would span from 1950 to 1963. Reporting to Congress then became yearly reports in 1964.
Of course this number wouldn't include any carbines Italy received by purchase or other means thru other countries, than the US.
From Jim M's Chart, Drop down to Italy:
Foreign Military Assistance
I'll really be curious to see if any report the Starred Stamp and 2 digit date we've seen on the top/rear of any barrels. A stamp thought to be a Italian Inspection and or Proof firing stamp after some rework.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...68064474-1.jpg
Below is the Exporter: LIMEX GMBH of Germany's US Customs Record and Bill of Laden for the M1 Carbines to Importer PW ARMS INC.
Appears that PW ARMS INC. is their largest trading partner....... Link below.
#4... BILL OF LADING...... HLCUHAM210277893
PRODUCT.................RIFLE 3120 PCS M1 RIFLE HS CODE 9303 3000
IMPORTER............... PW ARMS INC.
SUPPLIER................. LIMEX GMBH
ARRIVAL DATE..........2021-04-02
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN..GERMANY
GROSS WEIGHT KGS.... 22507 KGS
QUANTITY................ 151 PCS
LIMEX GMBH SHIPMENTS
Open Link, Click on 'Shipments' then See #4 for details: Limex Gmbh | See Recent Shipments | ImportGenius
I'm curious if #5 on the list Code: HS CODE 9301 9000 Could possibly be spare parts.
Is listed as '297 PIECES RIFLES'
Could these be Barrels ?
I'm not a member of the Web Site link so my Data is limited.
But I do see a lot of BM59 Rifle and Beretta pistol parts kits.
FWIW
What does "MOVED" mean in front of title, no replies, no views ??? moved to where ? thanks.
I don't have any carbines...yet. Would rather buy one out of a surplus crate, govt rebuilds or not, than overpay for something that has had a dozen private owners swap parts on. I love my cmp service grades, and have been wanting to find similar in a carbine. Curious to see what the prices are - also no info on even a ballpark timeframe of when they will be up for sale?
Louis,Quote:
Originally Posted by lboos
Yet another Topic shuffled out, again without a quick reply explanation.
Surely as a common courtesy a explanation IMO shouldn't be to much to ask.
So if we've broken some cardinal rule we wouldn't repeat it.
But Topics getting Moved or Closed is pretty common here.
Now here we are in the Auction, Gossip, Sales forum..... Where, If we do get a explanation it will get explained away as to benefit the membership by 'Now' being in the Correct Forum.
When posting in the Carbine forum.. Expect getting moved or closed, Especially if someone mentions a Auction, Auction results, Comments on Sales or something for Sale.
Maybe that's a clue as to why the M1 Carbine forum has become less active over the last couple years. No longer seeing many well known members posting here anymore. But those same members active on all the other Carbine forums.
I Feel like I wasted a few hours looking up Italy's MAP information and the Importer / Exporter info also. Just to get buried in the 'Gossip' section instead of the Carbine forum where news of Carbines coming from Italy and their history would find the most member interest. Would the Importer, Exporter, Country of Origin, Arrival date, number of Carbines and discussion of their current condition not be part of their History ? Or is this "Gossip" ?
These Carbines are Not For Sale Yet! :confused:
Would now seem that Any purchase or potential purchase of any item and discussion of it should be listed in the Sales-"Gossip" forum.
But posting back when the Carbines being returned and offered for sale from Israel, Italy, Greece, Korea and the recent RTI Ethiopians were fine in the Carbine forum ??
I'd add more but I believe I already hold the record for Topics being 'CLOSED'
Possibly this one after review. If so I apologize now to all that were trying to follow this thread and those that replied here.
:mad:
RTI passed along IOINC MELB FL import marked carbines to Classic, who sent them to James River to be refinished and now has them listed.
Currently in stock:
Inland
NPM
QHMC
UNDERWOOD
*SG*
Description for SG says:
"......... the ones being sold under this SKU have the manufacturing stamp Saginaw."
"This group of rifles was manufactured for the war effort by the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of the General Motors Corporation in either Saginaw or Grand Rapids Michigan"
Assume possibly to find SG and S'G' (?)
Currently in Stock:
Search results for: 'm1 carbine'
Classic has a video about these-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjpxGF_WprA
Seen where W5USMC has posted a Midway update about these Carbines:
UPDATE 5/19/2021 - While working through the grading process on the M1 Carbines, we now believe these issued carbines were turned back in to the U.S. Government for a functionality Check and Test. Our supplier believes this process would have been done in Europe and would have occurred prior to their transfer to the Italian Armed Forces. As part of the Check and Test process, parts may have been replaced or upgraded. Examples of replaced or upgraded parts could include stocks, bayonet lugs, sights, bolts, safeties or other small parts. In rare cases, barrels may have been replaced, but they appear consistent with wartime production and use. There is no evidence suggesting these guns have been refinished, just brought to a serviceable standard prior to their transfer.
Anyone thinking FN's Overhaul Program 45-46 might have had a hand on these ?