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Local gun store has a consigned Ishtapore Lee Enfield they've ticketed as a MKIII in .308. They consider it a conversion, though they don't know much about it. A little research hints that the Ishtapore SMLEs in .308 were built in 7.62 NATO and were 2As and 2A1s. This rifle has a gorgeous stock and the parkerizing is good. It appears to cock on closing - there is spring pressure to be over-ridden as you close it. What do I need to know about this rifle? What is a reasonable price?
Bob
Good guns.
It should say "2A" or "2A1" on the right wrist. While many will say you can fire .308 out of them (and I've seen it done), they are actually 7.62x51 and that is what I use in mine. I believe that most were manufactured in the 1960's. I purchased mine because I looked at it as having a relatively "new" SMLE type rifle that was in a caliber that would be easy to obtain far into the future. They usually do have some beautiful wood underneath the layers of Suncorite brushed or sprayed on them. If it's in good shape, it would be a good buy at 400 to 500 on today's market here in southern California.
Thank you kindly!
Bob
You can see mine under the title "Ishapore 2A Restoration" in the "Restorers Corner" section.
That's a lovely restoration indeed. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Singer B
Bob
I dropped by the store and got more info and a closer look. The Rifle is stamped on the right wrist as a 1967 Ishapore Type 2A1 in 7.62. The tag calls it a Mk.III. The blacking is reasonable. There are a couple of grooted-up screw heads and the front sling swivel is a tad bent.. The front sight is off-center to the right, presumably having been adjusted by the last owner? The lower stock is in excellent condition. The rear hand guard was split near the breech and has been repaired with two splices to stabilize it. The front hand guard has a brass pin through it forward of the rear sight but I couldn't see a split. The consignee is asking $500. Should I ask for a lower price?
Thanks in advance.
Bob
If this was 2 years ago, I would say no to $500 and maybe gone $350, but the current market in California would probably support $500. If you like it, I would say buy it. There are available parts for it and if it needs something serious, you can send it to Brian Dick. Plus, you will have an SMLE style rifle with 20-50 years less service on it than the standard SMLE and an ammunition source that should be available for a long time. They are well made and fun to shoot! Good luck, I hope you get it!
I had one a few years ago in very good shape I bought and sold for about 1k. Kinda wish I hadn't sold that one as it was a lot of fun.
Here's an oddball question: the trigger guard assembly is held in by two screws. One of these is a round headed screw that protrudes from the left-hand rear side of the trigger guard. On this example, that screw is kind of goobered up and is sharp. I am a left-handed shooter and it dug into my left hand enough that I can imagine it could eat me up while firing. I know that replacement screws are available for about $3 online so my questions to the gang are: Are there any lefty SMLE owners out there? Can a righty with an un-goobered screw try out a lefty grip and tell me whether they think it would gouge up a lefty's hand? Thanks again!
Bob
I'm a lefty and never had any issues with mine. Are you talking about the thin screw at the rear of the trigger guard?
Yep, the one on the left side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Singer B
Bob
It shouldn't be an issue. If the screw is messed up, you ca purchase a new.one that takes about a minute to replace. I've never had an issue with it and the rifle is actually a joy to shoot.
Marvelous. And thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Singer B
Bob
I went and pulled mine out of the safe. While the first pad of my index finger rests on the trigger, the second pad actually does touch the screw head. When I place pressure on the trigger, my finger arches and takes it off the screw head. I've fired hundreds of rounds through that rifle and never had an issue with it. Hope that helps and now I'm going to put it back in the safe.
Thanks! That is quite detailed and does indeed help. How do you like off-hand cocking? I suppose if you support the front on bags it doesn't disrupt thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by Singer B
Bob
That rear trigger-guard screw is one of those parts perennially butchered by the "unknowing". When the rifle is seriously stripped that that little transverse screw comes out AFTER the bigger screw in the front of the trigger-guard is removed. Should be no problem getting a replacement from the better parts suppliers.. If the slot is not too mangled on such a screw, it can be "blacksmithed" back to reasonable condition by holding the shank of the screw in soft jaws in a vise and applying some gentle peening with the appropriate small POLISHED face hammer. then the slot can be tidied up with the judicious application of a fine Swiss file or tiny hacksaw. A dab of cold blue is optional. Probably several "workshop" videos about this on the intertubes. People restoring all manner of non-firearm machinery do this sort of stuff all the time.
Caveat: There is a SET sequence (and certain prescribed techniques) for stripping and reassembling Lee Enfields. These MUST be followed if there are not to be tears before bed-time. LOTS of stuff to be found on the other pages of this website.
Have fun!
Thanks a bunch, Bruce. Loads of good info!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
Bob
Since lefties are usually slower on the bolt, we just have to be better shots and hit the target the first time!! Since the groups I shoot with do so just for fun, we never really notice the difference!
Well, this situation has developed a bit. I visited the '67 rifle at the nearby store that I spoke of above before, several times, and discovered that is was a mix-master with at least three different serial numbers on the parts. The front hand guard is missing its fingers, it was finsheded with the black paint and there was a lot of missing finish, the front sight ears were bent as were the sling swivels, and the the front sight was way over to one side, the right side. It might need that to zero up, but it makes getting lined up kind of hard for a lefty like me. The price was right for today's era ($500) but it had those demerits.
Then yesterday I happened to remember that there is local dealer that specializes in milsurps. On a lark, I gave him a call. He said he did have an Ishy 2A1 and quoted a price that was a little higher. So, before I plunked down my money I decided to go visit. This morning my wife and I drove out there. The rifle was hanging at the bottom of their wall of Brit rifles. It is a 1965 B range with the visible serial numbers on the bolt, receiver, rear sight, and front sight guard matching. The metal is totally Parkerized, not painted, with the original park being in good condition. Of course, the rear hand guard screw had to be goobered. The safety was super stiff. The stock is complete, the color is uniform. There are arsenal repairs at top and bottom of the buttstock by the butt cap and on the rear handguard. The magazine catch works well and the magazine fits well. I had them cycle a round to make sure it feeds properly. My wife was tremendously impressed with the condition of this one and the fact that it appears all-original.
We went back to look at the first one and frankly, it paled by comparison. Lots of bangs and bruises and work to be done. So, we grabbed coffee and went out to think, sitting in my wife's car with the rain drumming down. It is good to have a wife that wants the best for you. Vince Gill has said of his wife that he is "just grateful to be married to a kind woman." Mine really urged me that if I was going to buy one, that I go for a good one.
So, we made the half-hour drive back out to the milsurp dealer. Their gunsmith and I looked over the rear hand guard screw and the safety. He took the rifle to his shop and peened the rear trigger guard screw, smoothed it with a jeweler's file, and touched it up with Cool Blue. He also used some light penetrating gun oil on the safety and it began to lighten up. So, I bought it. I also picked up a period sling for it as well.
And here is a fun closing of a circle: back when I was a kid, the family was shopping for antiques and my brother and I came across a pair of bayonets. I ended up with one in extremely good condition marked "Australia." I hadn't really paid much attention to it but in my research over the last couple of weeks I noticed a bayonet that looked like mine. I pulled mine out and used a loupe to read the markings and, sure enough, it is an M1907, the original bayonet for Mk.IIIs and 2A1s. So, not only do I have an M1907, now I have a correct rifle to stick it on!
Bob
Winner! Great wife, great gun, great bayonet! While the guns and their history are great, I almost think the "hunt" is the best part of the hobby
That wife is a keeper, don't let go of her.
You know, I agree with you: my wife is a keeper. She's a great gal. How I ever landed her I have no idea.
Pics or it never happened!
These non-specific, day-after-arrival snapshots were shot in the backyard on a rainy day. Note spitty rain drops.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2a1lefto-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a1righto-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1righto2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2a1wrist-1.jpg
It's got some character.
Bob
Very nice! You found one without all of the black painted-on finish. Enjoy!