Does anybody have some good pictures of the C1A1 slings. I've been told there are a number of variations. I'm looking for the one with the metal ends and heavy buckles. Anyone got one of these they want to sell pls PM.
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Does anybody have some good pictures of the C1A1 slings. I've been told there are a number of variations. I'm looking for the one with the metal ends and heavy buckles. Anyone got one of these they want to sell pls PM.
The Canadian used two types of slings for the C1/C2 series of rifles. The first was the typical British Lee-Enfield type sling. The second type is referred to by civilian as the Pattern 1982 type sling it is green and has plastic (2) slide buckles. Go here for some information http://www.rollanet.org/~stacyw/canada_c1a1_sling.htm . Marstar in Canadian advertises C1 slings but they consider both types C1 slings so you may get either one when you order.
The webbing rifle sling was very probably the most versatile bit of kit ever invented. Every squaddy had a spare one wrapped around his kit somewhere. That and maybe the thinner Sterling SMG sling.....so long as you don't rely on the brass snap-hook!
"...Sterling SMG sling..." Use one of those on my 870. Works just fine.
Marstar lists C1 and C2 slings. $27 and $30 Cdn respectively. Lot of money for a sling.
"...Every squaddy had a spare one..." Maybe in the Regs, but not the Reserves. One per customer. And signed for.
I think I would have to disagree with the "84 pattern" designation for that sling.
There were two variations on the C1 slings that I know of. When the rifle first came out in the latter half of the 50s, it had a green sling with metal buckles. These were actual buckles and not merely a green Enfield sling. In the early 60s, Canada started using a new pattern of webbing (64 pattern) which generally featured a rubberized canvas, velcro, and plastic buckles. The second FN sling was based on that pattern of webbing and had the plastic buckles.
There are references to a third sling in Blake Steven's early book on the FNs where there was a section of padding in the sling. This is not an official variation, but rather an adaptation of the shoulder strap from the 64 pattern rucksack being added to the standard sling.
I have both patterns of sling in my FN collection, but I am currently working overseas at Kandahar airfield, so photos would have to wait a few weeks until I get home.
Edited to add that there is of course a third variation to the C1 sling, and that was the parade sling. White rubber(?) with velcro at each end to adjust and secure it. Certainly not the kind of sling you would actually use as a sling.
Stay safe out there Sten Collector. The natives are pretty restless. Kind thoughts.
Thanks Peter, but I am pretty safe where I am.
I am ex military working a civilian position on Kandahar Airfield only. I do not get to leave the gates, other than to fly in and fly out.The locals do seem to delight in firing the odd winger at us. However, since most of the ordnance they seem to scrounge up are soviet leftovers from the 80s, the majority are duds, and most of the rest land out on the tarmac. The guidance systems are of the "point-it-thataway" type. Even so, we have still had a couple close ones.
My thoughts are with the military guys and gals who routinely do the patrols and convoys in the area. Their sitrep is not quite as mellow as mine.
Stencollector, send me a PM with your email and next time I pass through we can discuss LE's
Here are a couple crappy photos of the FN slings. These will have to do until I get back to civilization. The C1 has a plastic buckle 64 pattern type sling while the C2 has the earlier metal buckle patter, more akin to the 51 pattern of webbing.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/C1A1C2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/FNC1A1-1.jpg
Note that in the photo above I did not make the messy weld. Mind you the camera makes it worse than it is. I have since replaced the lower to clean up the embarrassing burn mark.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4/FNC2A1-1.jpg
I have recently bought another C1A1 so that I can dress it up in the parade garb (white sling and chrome bayonet). I will need a few more FNs yet for the various Canadian issued sniper and night scope variations. The accessories don't look like much without the gun.
RGG7: If you still need one of the metal buckled slings, shoot me a PM. I know a guy in Saskatchewan who may have a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgg_7
Here are some pics of the Slings your interested in:-
The first type was the common Lee Enfield Sling (NSN 1005-21-103-1156)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...11031156-1.jpg
Then the C1 model (as marked on the sling) (metal buckles, 55 inches lg) entered service (NSN 1005-21-102-3781)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g762mmC1-1.jpg
Followed by the later plastic buckled model, (56.5 inches lg) Sling (NSN 1005-21-102-3781)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...82patten-1.jpg
The plastic buckles were around long before the 82 pattern webbing was introduced. The 1975 FN manual shows them. I posed this question to some of the more advanced webbing collectors here in Canada, and they concur with the timelines I have given for the metal and plastic buckles as being patterned on the 50s and 60s webbing. The likely reason that the metal buckled version is relatively rare compared to the plastic is that they were being replaced fairly early in the FNs timeline. The metal buckled sling is shown in the 63 parts manual (as is the Lee Enfield pattern of sling).
Also, I have seen many of the metal and plastic buckled slings with blanco on them. Blanco was long gone in the CF by the 80s.
As an aside, the C2 bras (chest pouch for magazines) can also be found with either metal or plastic hardware. The metallic clad ones have are of a more common canvas material while the later ones have the rubberized canvas.
Another collector answered the question about when the nylon buckles were introduced into service. He quotes Infantry Liaison Letter No. 9 dated 21 Feb 1958 which discusses the replacement of the metal, and the reasons why. It would certainly explain the reason why the metal buckled slings are harder to come by; they were replaced very early in the C1 rifles existence.
Credit for the following excerpts goes to Dan Martel.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lingPt1A-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lingPt2A-1.jpg
Sten,Quote:
Originally Posted by stencollector
Thank you for providing the documentation it's brilliant, please pass along my thanks to Dan Martel for providing it. I wonder what other juicy bits of info are hidden in the "Infantry Liaison Letters" about the C1 rifles?
I hope I haven't been to anal about the 64 pattern/82 pattern nomenclature. I just didn't want to see incorrect information perpetuated, as happens all too often in this age of information.
I'll pass on a thanks to Dan.
I am WTB one of the '82 pattern slings myself, for my No.4. I'd be pleased to hear from someone who has an extra or who can recommend a source. Thanks.
I don't want to appear contradictory but the plastic buckles didn't appear until the early 80s. Or thereabouts. They may have been conceived during the end of the 50s but remember, the FN it's self only came to light then. I assure you, we used the 303 slings for the most part in the 70s and the black covered brass buckle was scarce but prized by professionals. The plastic came at the end and the buckles were a failure as they broke in hard use. The sling was cheap and tended to fray and split at the ends also. I was there for all of this. I know for a fact.
The slings in use could vary between units, and the whims of the CQs who ordered in the spares. Whatever the time lines were for the plastic buckled sling, I can guarantee they had nothing to do with the 82 pattern webbing, and were in CF inventory long before that time. To call them 64 pattern would be wrong as well, as it would appear they were envisioned before that time. But that style of plastic/nylon buckle was a product of what is referred to as the 60s pattern of webbing.
I didn't join the CF until the mid 70s, and it was plastic buckled slings at that time.
I agree they aren't 64 pattern, I never looked at slings as ANY pattern. They weren't refered to in that way either. CQs would just order a number on the fish and get what came. I saw a few things come that way..leather cheek pieces for M1 rifles, bore brushes for M14s and a ranging barrel for the .50 in the Centurion tank - which was no longer in use.