M1 Carbine Opinion

Hi,

could I please have your thoughts on this carbine. I don't have it in hand. It belongs to a guy that wants to sell it to me. He got it out of a house about 15 yrs. ago. The stock was marked with a WRA CHD but the pic was too blurry to put here. There is a F on the hand grip or unless it was a P that didn't come out good. I am not sure. I don't know a lot about them but it has the has the flat bottom stock and the round bolt. There is something stamped in the sling well but I don't know what that is. I couldn't find it on the internet anywhere. Also it has the eye shaped for the oiler. Not sure about anything else. I do not see any import marks. I do know that this gun was never in a collection before. The sling is a kaki color but on the pics it looks somewhat greenish. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
maxwells

Looks like a nice post war rebuild Early Inland. Got some rust spots, but I have one just like it as I imagine many others do. If there is a chance to get it for under $1,000 a nice find.

Dave

Has great potential. If it comes at a reasonable price, go for it.

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Originally Posted by Wineman

Looks like a nice post war rebuild Early Inland.

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Rebuild yes, but it is a Winchester. Likely a spring tube receiver. Would really like to see a picture of the WRA/GHD stock marking. The Trimble TN in the sling well means it is a Trimble Nursery stock made for National Postal Meter.

Thank you for the replies. The Carbine is made by Winchester. They changed the stock when it was refurbished? I don't know too much about them but what is Nursery stock. Also the guy that has it was looking at prices on Guns International so if I want it I don't think I will get it too cheap. Could you tell if any of the other parts are Winchester? The guy that has it was telling me that ones with import marks are in the $1200-$1500 range. So I am thinking he will want a lot more than that. What does the WRA CHD mean? Any more help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
maxwells

An object is only worth what a person is willing to pay for it. While that carbine has been neglected it can be cleaned up. And as the "glory days" of inexpensive M1 Carbines are long gone you merely need decide how much you want one. For comparison check out the going prices for a 1941 Johnson Semi-automatic Rifle. Those are commanding stratospheric prices.

The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine Stocks & Handguards

WRA/GHD Inspection stamp. I believe the GHD is Guy H. Drewry, the chief inspector for that district. I couldn't see barrel markings in the pictures. Some may be hidden by the barrel band. An early spring tube Winchester even rebuilt is worth at least $1200. If you can get it for that or less, it is a good deal. The prices on GB are generally asking prices and not necessarily actual sale prices.

The I cut Trimble stock is worth more than a Winchester. The bolt is not round. I'm not well versed on the spring tube vs integral spring values with Winchester, but I personally would prefer a non-spring tube. But I wouldn't let that bother me, it looks to be a good honest carbine and $1200 would be a steal out on the Kommunist Coast. The stock looks great and after a complete cleaning, it would be a great one to own.

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Originally Posted by maxwells

but what is Nursery stock

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Trimble NurseryLand Furniture Company made stocks for National Postal Meter.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

The I cut Trimble stock is worth more than a Winchester

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Maybe, that is why I asked for a picture of the WRA/GHD cartouche. According to WB NPM sent 1500 Trimble stocks to Winchester in Oct 43. Could this stock be one of those?

Thank you very much for all your responses. You guys are great. I did ask him for the pic of the WRA CHD. The one I had was blurry & I didn't hear back from him. He said he got it right out of a house that the veteran brought it back. I was guessing that maybe it was a Korean war vet because he didn't know. I know Winchester did have the bayonet lug on the very late WW2 ones. Could this be one of them? I do have a pic that I forgot to post. Here it is. It looks like an F but it could be a P that didn't come out right. The guy told me that he saw M1 carbines on line with the bayonet lug and they were in the over $2000.00 zone. SO maybe it is worth that, I don't know.

Thanks,
maxwells

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Originally Posted by maxwells

Thank you very much for all your responses. You guys are great. I did ask him for the pic of the WRA CHD. The one I had was blurry & I didn't hear back from him. He said he got it right out of a house that the veteran brought it back. I was guessing that maybe it was a Korean war vet because he didn't know. I know Winchester did have the bayonet lug on the very late WW2 ones. Could this be one of them? I do have a pic that I forgot to post. Here it is. It looks like an F but it could be a P that didn't come out right. The guy told me that he saw M1 carbines on line with the bayonet lug and they were in the over $2000.00 zone. SO maybe it is worth that, I don't know.

Thanks,
maxwells

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What someone asks for and what they get isn't always the same. $2,000? Nope. But that's just me as someone out there will eventually pay that.

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Originally Posted by maxwells

I know Winchester did have the bayonet lug on the very late WW2 ones. Could this be one of them? I do have a pic that I forgot to post. Here it is. It looks like an F but it could be a P that didn't come out right.

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Your serial # would be too early for a Bayonet lug. The P on your stock was put there when it was rebuilt.

Well, $2,000 is a tough decision. He can say that is what they are selling for on-line but I would counter that the seller doesn't collect $2k, they maybe collect $1,500 after fees. Here are some other detractors from that $2k mark -

* It has been refurbed to the post-WWII/pre Korean configuration - aka - not original
* Winchester made the second largest total of M1 carbines so the Winchesters are not as rare as most of the other M1 manufacturer types
* It needs a LOT of love and care to bring it back to where it should be (a clean and operable M1 that had a life of service and shows it). Who knows what you are
going to find when you take the barrel/receiver out of the stock. It may need to go to a rehab professional and that will run 2-300 or more for that rehab
* You don't know what the bore looks like or if the gun will even work

These things might increase the price:

* Its a Winchester and some people will pay more for anything that says "Winchester" on it
* I can't tell if the sling is an original GI sling, but if it is, that is an extra $75

I personally would offer 1200 and be willing to go to 1400 for it in todays market. If it was in a clean and operable condition, I think 2k is still too high and it would be around 1700-1800. All of this is IMHO. I hope you get it and give it a great home!

I noticed the "I-cut" stock but it was modified to "low wood" during rebuild and that hurts the value quite a bit. I see an SI marked front band - would like to know what the barrel markings are. - Bob

I saw the "N" front sight and guessed Inland. I should have looked for the SN block. That may mean a replacement barrel or someone just grabbed an N sight when the barrel band was put on. $2K only if you have to have a Carbine. I'm also with others, rust on the outside may mean rust in places hidden by the stock. Not good.

Dave

In my opinion; most used items and some new items listed for sale on the internet or overpriced!! Make an offer!!:dunno:

For comparison, from what we are seeing the Midway carbines went through at least one Arsenal refurb overseas, and perhaps several maintenance checks. However they seem not to have been all disassembled into buckets and reassembled from parts. Midway sold the very-good to fine examples for $1700-$1800.
Then again, I've seen several of the Midway carbines pop up in my local cabelas gun library for $2500, import stamp and all, and sell within 24 hrs of putting it out. Prices on the internet run hot.

A rare variant or something like a Rock-Ola or Irwin Pederson with a bayonet lug might go for $2000, but not an arsenal rebuilt Winchester. That guy is mixing apples and oranges. And an all original/all correct Inland or Winchester MIGHT go a little higher, but not that Winchester. The guy is full of crap. Make him a reasonable offer and let it go at that. Don't waste your money overpaying for it.

Thank you very much for all your help. I offered the guy $1600 for it but he said $2000 firm because from what he saw on the internet it is worth $2500 or more. He saw one with import marks going from $1200-$1500 & more he said.

Thanks,
maxwells

Ask him to send you a link to the completed auctions. That way you can look at the descriptions and pictures of the carbines, as well as the bidding. Sometimes the sellers have friends "run the price up" and you can determine that - often the gun goes on sale again shortly afterwards. - Bob

I forgot to mention that he said look at Midway and look at the prices for the ones that have import marks. He said that they are up as high as $2400. This one is a direct vet buy and you don't come across them too often. I just did now & I can't believe the import ones go for so much. It is very confusing.

Thanks,
maxwells

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Originally Posted by jimb16

A rare variant or something like a Rock-Ola or Irwin Pederson with a bayonet lug might go for $2000, but not an arsenal rebuilt Winchester. That guy is mixing apples and oranges. And an all original/all correct Inland or Winchester MIGHT go a little higher, but not that Winchester. The guy is full of crap. Make him a reasonable offer and let it go at that. Don't waste your money overpaying for it.

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Couldn't have said it better. I once found a Type 38 with the bring-back letter and intact mum and the guy wanted $1,000. I offered $750 (the gun was in rough shape) and he rejected it. He said he could get 1500 for it. Went back a few months later and he still had it and wouldn't move off the $1000 price. Six months later, I found a Type 38 (no mum or bring back letter, but 13 of the 15 numbered parts matched) and i picked it up for $500. The gist is that there are plenty of other M1 carbines out there at reasonable prices.

Wayne, you may have something with the NPM Stock to Winchester. My 5.6 Winchester and another in BQ's term "Mirror Image" in the data base is what makes the AU recoil plates legit. Underwood sent 500 Recoil plates to Winchester in Nov of 43 and by March 44 they got around to using them. That would be a great connection.

The rebuild to type 2 sights almost always was accompanied by a new front sight. My NPM has an RIA front sight. It makes those carbines shoot dead on where an existing sight might be filed down to make it work with a flip sight.

The $2K price is some guy doing a shoot for the moon deal. I'd meet him in person and have the $1600 in cash in hand and appeal to his better sense and the value of taking care of friends. Then point out the pitfalls of dealing with the shipping, insurance FFLs, the possibility of fraud at the other end, possible rejection and associated fees etc. I'd also tell him about the consensus of opinion from this board and then just let it go. Karma has a way of working things out the way they are supposed to work. Tell him about the spring tube carbine's history of failing from cracks and how Winchester had to change to a better way on the rest of their carbines. This is just an honest example of 1 of 6.5M made, nothing special or uber exciting. Good luck.

This is where patience since you don't "need" a Carbine is going to come in handy. If you want one, and don't want to spend $2,000 keep looking. The $1,000 ones are still out there, but it is a sellers market. Midway and the internet putting prices higher is not helping. Any parts kit AR will out shoot any M1 Carbine, all day any day. Sexy, no. Historical, yes if you consider it has outlasted every other US military arm (1911's???). Even the Taliban is rocking AR's these days. But they were not on Iwo Jima, Bastogne, or Inchon. When something goes from tool prices to fine art prices, all bets are off. People pay millions for some canvas and oil paint. However, there were not 6,000,000 Van Goghs all together, including copies.

Good luck and we hope you make a deal satisfactory to both parties.

Dave

Thank You again for all your replies and support. You really went above & beyond to help. I know there is nothing else really to say but the guy told me that he is stuck on the $2000. He is in his 70's and he took this out of a house a long time ago. I guess to him it is special. You can see he never cleaned it. The one thing he said is that he saw some on Midway Arms that they are getting ready to sell and he said they go from $1200 up to $2400. I don't understand that they are so much for ones with an import mark and people are going to buy them up.

Thanks,
maxwells

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Originally Posted by maxwells

he said they go from $1200 up to $2400.

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Most people that quote you these pie in the sky prices don't understand the differences between what they have and what they see. They also can't understand asking price and selling price are two different things. You make an offer and leave it, sometimes you don't get it. He never cleaned it because he didn't care much, it was nothing. Now he's had a look online and thinks he's going to be rich from it.

I believe the ones now showing up again on Midway (originally they were sold out) are returns that buyers weren't satisfied with. Maybe the next guy will pay the same price and feel like he got a deal - "got one of the last ones available, etc." I bought a couple a few years ago for what I was told was "way too much" and then within 6-8 years sold them for more than twice what I had paid. Now wish I had kept them both! Even if you just have to have that one, the value will likely go up with the current trends - remember all those younger guys who "know" M1 Carbines from the video games they played while growing up. Everyone thought the collector value of the M1 Carbine would go flat after the CMP's last bunch, but they were wrong. I let those (2) of mine go for about 1/2 the price your friend is asking. Notice too, that the "Blue Book of Gun Values" used to show the value of those that had gone through a rebuild (or with late features) as 50% of the original configuration. Now they've made "adjustments" and rebuild values are no longer that low. :dunno: - Bob

I was at a gun show in Costa Mesa this morning. Not a whole lot there (it is Sunday), but I did stop at a booth with three M1's, all Underwoods and he had them priced at 1200 and 1300. I was rather surprised as they were in really good shape and the stocks were not sanded. I expected them to be closer to 1500-1600. Maybe the market is topping out?

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Originally Posted by Singer B

I was at a gun show in Costa Mesa this morning. Not a whole lot there (it is Sunday), but I did stop at a booth with three M1's, all Underwoods and he had them priced at 1200 and 1300. I was rather surprised as they were in really good shape and the stocks were not sanded. I expected them to be closer to 1500-1600. Maybe the market is topping out?

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Did the M1 Carbines you saw at the show have Import Marks on them? Those ones on Midway go as high as $2400 with import marks and people are buying them. All the M1's I see on some of the dealer sites are asking for over $2000 for ones that are arsenal reworked but they don't have import marks on them.

Thanks again,
maxwells

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxwells

Did the M1 Carbines you saw at the show have Import Marks on them? Those ones on Midway go as high as $2400 with import marks and people are buying them. All the M1's I see on some of the dealer sites are asking for over $2000 for ones that are arsenal reworked but they don't have import marks on them.

Thanks again,
maxwells

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I didn't look for import marks on them. In my opinion, that isn't a detractor since it actually shows that carbine was in service somewhere outside of the USA. I look first for the manufacturer (I'm trying to get one from each manufacturer), then I look at the wood (after learning a lot of great information from the people here). The presence or absence of an import mark doesn't justify a $500 to $800 swing in the value and price. Unfortunately, the person you are dealing with has researched only enough information to screw up the deal. Maybe give him a few weeks. Once he starts taking it to gun stores or auction houses to put it up for sale, he will start to realize what the actual value of the rifle is, the fees and commissions he will be subjected too and what he will actually collect. I can't imagine an auction house or gun store placing that rifle on sale in its present condition and expecting to sell it for $2000 to $2400. I agree with DaveHH and remind the seller you are good to go at $1,600 and please feel free to call me when you are ready to sell. And while you are waiting for this guy to call you back, keep looking for another one, since it is the "hunt" that is so much fun. I've got my eye on a NPM at my local store and just waiting for him to release it for sale. Its like waiting for Christmas. I would have bought one of the Underwoods I saw yesterday at those prices, but I already have a truly beautiful Underwood. Good luck!!

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Originally Posted by maxwells

Hi,

could I please have your thoughts on this carbine. I don't have it in hand. It belongs to a guy that wants to sell it to me. He got it out of a house about 15 yrs. ago. The stock was marked with a WRA CHD but the pic was too blurry to put here. There is a F on the hand grip or unless it was a P that didn't come out good. I am not sure. I don't know a lot about them but it has the has the flat bottom stock and the round bolt. There is something stamped in the sling well but I don't know what that is. I couldn't find it on the internet anywhere. Also it has the eye shaped for the oiler. Not sure about anything else. I do not see any import marks. I do know that this gun was never in a collection before. The sling is a kaki color but on the pics it looks somewhat greenish. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
maxwells

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Hey Maxwells,

I´m not an expert, but I love M1s, the one in the pictures looks cool.
Regards :beerchug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxwells

Thank you very much for all your responses. You guys are great. I did ask him for the pic of the WRA CHD. The one I had was blurry & I didn't hear back from him. He said he got it right out of a house that the veteran brought it back. I was guessing that maybe it was a Korean war vet because he didn't know. I know Winchester did have the bayonet lug on the very late WW2 ones. Could this be one of them? I do have a pic that I forgot to post. Here it is. It looks like an F but it could be a P that didn't come out right. The guy told me that he saw M1 carbines on line with the bayonet lug and they were in the over $2000.00 zone. SO maybe it is worth that, I don't know.

Thanks,
maxwells

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For sure is a cool Carbine, but for sure isn´t a 2K one. You may are showing too much interest and the seller is taking advantage of that. Patience always rewards.
The guys in this forum are awesome, for sure they have taught me great things, listen to them, you won't regret it.
Regards :beerchug:

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxwells

Thank you very much for all your help. I offered the guy $1600 for it but he said $2000 firm because from what he saw on the internet it is worth $2500 or more. He saw one with import marks going from $1200-$1500 & more he said.

Thanks,
maxwells

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What do you mean by import marks?

---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Singer B

Couldn't have said it better. I once found a Type 38 with the bring-back letter and intact mum

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Hey SingerB
What do you mean?
Regards :beerchug:

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Originally Posted by maxwells

The stock was marked with a WRA CHD but the pic was too blurry

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Are you sure the letters aren't lightly stamped NPM over FJA all in a box?
With a Crossed Cannons stamp to the side of it.

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Originally Posted by EddieM

For sure is a cool Carbine, but for sure isn´t a 2K one. You may are showing too much interest and the seller is taking advantage of that. Patience always rewards.
The guys in this forum are awesome, for sure they have taught me great things, listen to them, you won't regret it.
Regards :beerchug:

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------



What do you mean by import marks?

---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------



Hey SingerB
What do you mean?
Regards :beerchug:

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When military members came back from the war, they were allowed to bring captured weapons home as war trophies. They needed permission for this and would obtain a letter from their command authorizing them to "bring back" a captured firearm or weapon. These letters add value to a surplus weapon since you can track its origin and who/where/when it was obtained.

An "intact mum" refers to the "Chrysanthemum" stamping found on.tje receivers of Arisaka rifles. The "Mum" is the symbol of the Japanese emperor. When Japan surrendered their weapons, the Mums were often defaced or removed to prevent dishonor to the emperor.

I hope that was helpful!

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Originally Posted by Singer B

When military members came back from the war, they were allowed to bring captured weapons home as war trophies. They needed permission for this and would obtain a letter from their command authorizing them to "bring back" a captured firearm or weapon. These letters add value to a surplus weapon since you can track its origin and who/where/when it was obtained.

An "intact mum" refers to the "Chrysanthemum" stamping found on.tje receivers of Arisaka rifles. The "Mum" is the symbol of the Japanese emperor. When Japan surrendered their weapons, the Mums were often defaced or removed to prevent dishonor to the emperor.

I hope that was helpful!

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Very interesting SingerB
As always I really appreciate it :beerchug:

I once saw a carbine I wanted at a show, but felt the price was too high by $400, so I made the guy an offer. He refused. Next show, it was still there. Same offer, refused. To make a long story short, at show number 7, I walked up and looked at the same carbine, shook my head and started to walk away. The guy called to me and said aren't you the guy who offered me X dollars for this one? I said yes. He asked if my offer was still good. I said yes. I went home with the carbine at my price. This was early last year. Make the offer and sit back. If it doesn't sell, you may still go home with it.