Repro No 4 Mk 1 T Issues

Hello all!

So I have recently picked up a reproduction No 4 Mk 1 T sniper for a deal I couldn’t refuse, and I’m having some issues with it and am in need of assistance.

The rifle itself is quite nice, and at least visually it appears that whoever did the installation of the pads did a decent job of it. The scope (No 32 Mk 1 style) and bracket feel very solid and appear to be slightly older reproductions. The scope feels rather well built, with blued steel and parts like the elevation/windage turrets seem to be brass under black paint. The optic has no markings of any kind on it to identify, nor does the bracket. It came with the can for carrying it, as well as adjustment tool.

Now for the issue I’m having. It doesn’t seem like the previous owner ever fired the rifle much (if at all), and I suspect the reason why is that the scope reticle is canted rather badly. The post is very noticeably pointing up to the left side of the scope.

My first instinct was that the pads were likely to blame, but after reading the the very helpful articles by Mr Laidler, I’m beginning to think that the scope cant/alignment issue may actually be due to some issues with the repro bracket itself. Unfortunately I seem to have just barely missed the boat on Mr Payne’s excellent brackets, so fixing this one is really my only option short of scrapping the whole project and just plugging the holes in the receiver. I’ve been doing some digging on the forum trying to find an answer, and have seen references to some known issue with some repro brackets being out of spec and causing this problem.

Does anyone recall what the issue could be, or have any ideas on how this can be corrected? I have some experience fitting side mounted scopes like on Mosin PU snipers, however the No 4 T setup is new to me and I am taking this slow so as not to mess anything up more than it already has been.

Appreciate any assistance and thanks for your time!

As I see it you have four possible problems:

1. the pads were not properly aligned in the vertical plane when mounted on the rifle, or are improperly machined.
2. the bracket surfaces which bear against the pad's mating surfaces are improperly machined.
3. the alignment groove for the locating stud in the lower front "ring" is too large or machined out of alignment. (ie:not in the 6 o'clock position it should be).
4. there is no locating stud, or the groove is incorrectly machined, and the scope is simply rotated out of vertical in the rings of the bracket.

There is also the slight possibility that the reticule was not properly aligned when the scope was assembled.

Remove the bracket and look down the receiver toward the muzzle: do the pad surfaces appear vertical and parallel?

Loosen the 8 screws that hold the ring caps on the bracket and see if you can rotate the scope to vertical.

Does the post of the reticule appear to be square to the tops of the drums/knobs? If not, the problem is internal.

If yes, and you cannot rotate it into alignment, remove the ring caps and determine if the aligning stud is present and appears to be properly centered on both the bracket and the scope.

If so, I'd say your problem is probably in the pads or bracket, have a close look at those with the rifle in a rest or vise.

If you could set the rifle up and get some pics as Surpmil has talked about this will aid him and those with the acquired knowledge to at least get a bit of an idea of possible malady's that are present with your rifle.:thup:
Its very hard for these guys without pics harder still without being able to handle the rifle.

If you cal put the riffel in level in all direction
Check that the Top of the elevation/ windage turrets are in
Level vertical and horisontal. If not check the top of the two brackets screws
And see if they i leveled to the rifle vertical. if so the reticule should also
Be leveled correctly. Or adjusted. Correct with minor adjustments.
Otherwise i think you have to find somebody who can repair the scope

Jsne

I've run into this with a few others.
Someone has bought the kit (scope, can, tool, bases and screws) and just screwed it on the side of the No.4
Then, they attempted to shoot it and ended up about 4 feet off the target so moved the adjustments to max and still not on the target.
Solution: sell the rifle and let the next guy worry about it.
If the adjustments have been jammed up tight and the lock ring and lead screw eaten up with adjustments you have a problem.
I have repaired a number of them and many even were screwed up so tight trying to get on the target the lead screw was bent.
Depending on the make, I probably have parts for the scope.
As to getting it mounted correctly, you are on your own there.
If you want, I can probably walk you through it, but depends on how much the rifle is chewed up getting the pads mounted and how badly the scope internals are chewed up as well.
I have seen and worked on some that still give me nightmares......

In my case, replacing the repro bracket with one of Roger Payne's brackets fixed the kind of problem you're describing. With the repro, the reticle was both canted and shifted so far to the left that I ran out of clicks before it would center. Here's a pic:

Attachment 119759

With Roger's bracket, the scope is spot on:

Attachment 119760

This is on a less-telescope Savage, so the pads were (presumably) fitted correctly. Scope is a repro of unknown make.

I would agree with what Surpmil & Warren have suggested; there are several possible explanations for your problem. However, I have now come across a few instances where the anti-rotation pin slot at the front lower end of the bracket (which is supposed to be machined in exactly the six o'clock position in order to prevent canting - the very issue you mention) has been machined either over size or not machined in quite the right place.

The six thou vertical post appearing to veer to the left could be due to canting but could also be down to a poorly fitted/substandard grat (with a badly fitted or even slightly bent vertical post).

You may not be in a position to try this, but if you know someone who has a proven provenance straight shooting original 4T with scope & bracket, then you could try fitting said scope & bracket to your rifle. If the pads are way off you will probably see a similar canting tendency to what you find with your existing scope. If the pads have been well fitted it may not collimate exactly but it is quite likely it won't be too far out if you check it against a scope collimator (or bore sight it against a distant aiming point).

As has been mentioned, if you can manage to upload a few pics (including of the pads with the scope & bracket OFF), we might be able to see a little more & be able to advise you accordingly.

Another thought................when you mention canting & the vertical post deviating off to the left, do you mean that with the horizontal hairs truly horizontal the post deviates to the left (this could be defective fitting of the post or a bent post)? Alternatively, do you mean the post deviates & the horizontal hair is not quite horizontal? If the latter is the case of course the possibilities would include a defective anti-rotation pin/slot causing canting of the whole scope, or defectively fitted/machined pads.....

I had the same problem with after market mounts and the scope can not be installed with the cross hairs not in the 90 degree plane to the bore . The problem is easily fixed by widening the locating slot on the front ring so you can rotate the scope right or lift to bring the cross hair into position with the bore .

Easiest is just remove the aligning pin from the scope.
Bobb's yur uncle
A two minute job.

Thanks for the assistance and suggestions so far everyone. Unfortunately I will have to be away from home until later next week, so I will post an update with detailed pictures and findings once I am back and able to do so.

I plan to inspect the pads again to see if they’re truly level, and will try to get pictures. Will also attempt to bore sight using DAP method and see how far off the optic is. If it’s not too bad, and the grat itself isn’t out of spec or poorly installed, I’ll try to just remove the pin and rotate the optic in the bracket and see how close it gets. Sadly I do not have access to any original brackets/scopes for these, and cannot justify sinking $2-3k into a proper setup for this $600 rifle that will never be a legit example anyways. If all else fails, I’ll probably just sell the repro sniper bits and plug the holes as the rifle that was used as a base for this is an example worth saving if it comes to that.

Thanks again and will provide update as soon as I am able.

I had the same issue with a repro scope and bracket. With a Weaver K4 in the bracket, no problems at at all. I then got a repro scope and the trouble started. Ended up being the relief cut for the scope locating pin was bad. Like mentioned before, either remove the pin or remove enough metal on the bracket to where the scope fits properly level without the upper rings. Once it lies properly in the bottom bracket, attach the tops.