1915 Lithgow Gem (Need Advice)

Hi Guys,

Recently had the opportunity to pick up this beautiful 1915 Lithgow with all of its original trim.
All matching apart from a mismatched bolt and has been factory re-barreled (I believe) in 49 with the action re-stamped with a serial number that matches the nose cap but no other parts. She has had a long life from what I can see and was eventually used as a range rifle as someone bored out the nose cap and tried to bed it with grey silicone (I know it sounds rough but I was able to remove all of the silicone!). This is where the questions come in!

1) I think it would be best to replace the nose cap and I have an open eared Lithgow marked nose cap that would match and you can see in one of the pictures, opinions on this?

2) It is missing its inner barrel retaining band and the front barrel tensioner. I want to replace both of these items but am terrified of taking of the front sight as I have never done it before! Any tips and or recommendations? I want to take it back to pre when it was made into a range rifle and have it as a shooter as the rifling is crisp!

3) The top hand guard nose metal screws are missing, any clue where to get some of these or will I need to take them off another hand guard?

Overall im extremely happy considering what I paid for it. Even have a 1915 Lithgow bayonet to go with it! Would love some opinions on the rifle and all comments are welcome, I'm far from an experienced collector and have just enough knowledge to get me in trouble! :lol:
Best Regards,
Sam.

Nice lookin' old rifle, they sure stamped that number into the barrel ring to stay. Yes. the nosecap has been opened up so badly and it doesn't match anyway so what's the harm? Nice rifle.

4 Military District (4MD) – South Australia and Broken Hill, Torrowangee, and Silverton in New South Wales.
Fairly rare survivor like I have said is the survival rate of the early rifles is directly related to how WWI was fought and their rate of attrition was a rifles life span was measured in mere weeks if not days whilst Lithgow had only really been producing the MKIII for 3 scant years starting production in 1912.

To be honest if you have taken the bedding away what other mods have they done to it I'd give it a good clean and drink of RLO/Mineral Turps put it all back together and see how it runs before you get tinkering, my friend uses a 1915 Lithgow and cleans up allot of shoots.
It can be seen on the bottom wood where the bedding compound was used it looks/appears like they relieved the very front near the front sight (Lighter shade) and opened up the channel where the muzzle would sit.
Would be interesting to know if they have done this as the front area is pretty important with regards to the bedding there there is supposed to be an element of up lift, I am sure the persons who know these rifles inside out will assist you in this matter.
Besides the modern projectiles have a whole different trajectory so the sight settings you'll have to figure out with range time just do the usual checks with the bedding & draws but if you replace the missing parts take the time to research the info on this site there is plenty here.
Have fun, I used my 1916 Lithgow MkIII 5 MD for shoots but decided that it should be a safe queen as the others in the nest are allot younger so they can do the range time like I said the early Lithgows whilst not abundant are a good catch.

Not a big job to remove front sight need a pin punch and a brass drift but if it has a h barrel the 2 items you said are missing are the 1st to go I wouldn’t worry about them but it is your rifle

Actually from memory as Piscoda has mentioned the middle band will not fit the "H" barrel as my 1916 Lithgow has a "H" brl and is also missing the middle band you will also see or should see the rear sight band is usually split or removed all together then the rear sight block reattached.
Mine has the bands removed and the block reattached.

As it has a H barrel, the missing front inner band and forend stud and spring are omitted.

Thanks for the replies everyone, lots of great information!
So from what I have gathered, replace the nose cap with the new one I have and don't worry about the missing front inner band and fore end stud. So were these omissions done at a factory level? I believe this rifle went through a refurb at Lithgow but it is weird that it didn't get its volleys removed! Will not having these parts effect the accuracy of the rifle? (Or cause it to eat itself with recoil?)
Best Regards,
Sam.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheAlpineWolf

it didn't get its volleys removed! Will not having these parts effect the accuracy of the rifle?

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Retaining them has no effect at all. And I doubt an inner band could be fitted because of the barrel size. Thus removal.

Thanks for the help everyone! I won't bother ordering the inner barrel band and tensioning spring and stud as it sounds like these parts would have been deleted when the new barrel was installed. Hopefully at some point I can get it out to the range and see how accurate this old war horse is with its new font nose cap!

That's a beautiful rifle you have! And a nice 4MD example too! Most of the 1915 Lithgows went to 2 MD and 3 MD. Most of the 1915 Lithgows that we see are from serial number 24XXX and upwards. If you can get one earlier then that's wonderful. From October 1915 onwards, Britain said that they would take over the issuing of rifles to the AIF so rifles from 24XXX upwards were issued to the Commonwealth Military Forces (CMF) and that's why we see it stamped on the butt. A routine order from 1913 outlines the markings for rifles allocated to CMF and distinctly states that rifles and equipment used for mobilisation was not to be marked as such. Most of the 1913 & 1914 Lithgows did end up going with the AIF to the Dardanelles and that's why we see them with a mix of other nationality markings.

Is that an issue date of 3/16 on the butt? Seems to be typical that a significant allocation of rifles was done out of SAF in March 1916 to the MD consisting of later 1915 and early 1916 rifles - 30XXX and 39XXX.

Matty so true I have 3 x 1914 lithgows one remained with the Aussies the other to England repaired at LSA and another was ftr’d in Indian 1932 . All nice rifles if only they could talk .

The inner band and the spring and plunger hiding above the "strap" on f the nose-cap were part of the "tuning" of the standard barrel to the issue Mk Vll ammo.

The "inner band" and its spring and screw pull the barrel down and the "hidden" one pushes the muzzle end upwards against the top of the muzzle hole in the nose-cap.

Change the ammo and all bets are off.

Swap in one of the "H" barrels and ditto.

The HT sniper rigs ALL had "H" barrels and a different "bedding" setup. A real HT fore-end has a wooden plug filling the hole for the "inner-band" screw and spring, and absolutely NO inner band. Totally different barrel vibration pattern to the "standard" barrel.

Among the "full-bore" range types there was a culture of "tuning"; albeit often without a lot of empirical evidence or craftsmanship.

Many had the muzzle hole of the nose-cap opened out with rather injudicious use of a coarse, rat-tailed file. The resulting clearance, usually neither circular or concentric, was often graced with a short length of rubber hose, hammered in from the front. A "flexible front bearing", of sorts. Another triumph of "psycho-ballistics". My very first No 1 was one of these

Note that the genuine "factory" HT rifles do not have this quaint nose-cap feature, despite using the SAME barrel and firing the SAME Mk Vll ball ammo, and they seemed to work OK. My father did the machining to a rear-sight bet to enable it ti fit the "H" barrel and noticed the "interesting" placement and shape of the big hole in the nose-cap. His solution? As the fore-end had been carved well clear of the barrel forward of the Knox Form, he suggested letting it sit naturally within that ragged hole and pump in some black industrial Silicone Rubber to fill the space. Trim the excess flush once set and give it a whirl.

It worked quite nicely, especially when fed the wonderful post-WW2 "surplus" FN Mk Vll ball; "pour Bren".

Lovely rifle.
Just some info on the enlarged hole in the nosecap. I suspect it has been modified to take a rubber bush to locate the heavy barrel. As far as I know, this modification was developed by Reg Dean, armourer and shooter from the Robinvale Rifle Club (Victoria, Australia) in the 1950/60's. The "rubber nose" 303 is reputed to be the ultimate development of the SMLE for full bore target shooting. Reg won the New South Wales Queens in 1963.
The first photo below shows the rubber bush in place in a nosecap. (Apparently the rubber bush was made from the rear spring shackle rubber from the Holden car of the time.) The other photo is of the steps down to the butts of the Robinvale rifle range, the steps being held in place by SMLE barrels, no doubt courtesy of Reg and a testament to the many years of experimenting with his rifle (and many others!) to get the best out of the 303.

Hi Everyone,
Sorry I let this thread go as life has gotten in the way over the past few months.
Thank you for all of your info and dedication, I ended up just putting on a new nose cap and that was all. Going to get the headspace checked and head out to the range with this old beauty soon!
Best Regards,
Sam.