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Want to ruin some history?
I see Ole Bardall has his goods for sale on his Web Site.
Say's they've been at it since 2004
Still selling the same messed up mismatched designs for most Makers Carbines, Garands, 03, 45-70, Trench gun, Krags, German Stamps and P Proofs.. etc.
Imagine how many Stocks have been ruined since 2004 :slap:
Not to mention duped buyers.
I'll leave NO LINK :nono:
Charlie, There a guy named Findley who lived in Stone Mountain, GA who faked all the SA and Winchester cartouches
for M1 rifles for years (he has since died but you can bet his stamps are still around) The late Mel Bishop also known
for stamping SA and Winchester cartouches, collectors soon recognised his lazy R in the Bishop WRA stamps. Also
there is the Rahway, NJ SA SPG that collectors know too. These counterfeiters make errors and guys like Rick Borecky
study these cartouches but alot of good money was spent on fakes and stocks ruined and it is still going on.
Hi Robert,
I still have a file full of Bardall's sales on Ebay back when you could see who the buyer was.
A lot of these guys are still among us.
If you think about the ones who bought a few stamps for just a couple uses then sold them off..... They are still out there humping away.
I have the best REAL Carbine CC markings saved that I use to compare the humped ones.
I've broke many a heart having to tell owners their new prize has been messed with.
Like many others, I could be happy just collecting fine original stocks. I own many, just to have them.
That CC and Arms Inspector, when they are great original examples drive any collector wild.
But all have to understand that these original stamps were often lightly struck. And wood being wood will shrink and swell.
Add the wear and tear of years of handling and the web belts rubbing on them, you have to expect these markings to often be found today as just a remnant or completely missing.
It's just always bothered me that under the guise of 'Restoration' these are produced, used and profited from.
It's like p!ssing on the graves of those who made and carried these arms. In memory of those that served, that deserve better.
All for that mighty dollar. Between the improved Fake Stamps and Fake parts starting to become better and better, the day will come that very few will be able to determine real vs fake. Bardall is still using his same style Stamps from the early 2000's, so easy to spot if you can compare to originals. But I've seen Rock Ola stamps that if applied lightly are nearly impossible to distinguish from Originals.
Guess I'm just worked after running across the Web Site and the news the last few days.
I do know I'm in too deep to give up the hobby.
I started with my Fathers 'War Gun' that hung on a 3 rifle rack when I was a kid pointing to it to my boyhood friends. It wasn't until the 80's when he became sick that I pulled it out and began to study it. Before that I couldn't have told you what maker it was. He along with 2 Australians hid in the highlands and watched the Bataan Death March. Never left the Philippines and even re-upped while still there. So yea, I think of guys like him and those after him that served and am tired of seeing our Vets being Disrespected.
**Anyone know what time it is?** :bitch:
My Father:
Attachment 119855Attachment 119856
Full sets of makers stamps have been available one place or another for years and some people that rebuild service rifles even offer to make it whatever inspector you like or the one closest to the serial date... That's one of the major reasons I sold my LL M1 rifle, because I was afraid sooner or later the fakes would outnumber the good ones and no one would believe I had a good one.
The fake stamps started before the WW2 rifles and carbines surfaced to collectors and shooters. now even Gun Parts (Numrich) sell poorly
made stamps for the new collector/shooter.
I have a friend that goes to the Reno NV gun show, and there a vender who has a table set up just to
stamp your carbine or rifle cartouche at his table. This way you save shipping, just bring your stocks
and have them stamped right at the show.
I've been wanting to have one made...before you yell at me, I want one with MY initials on it to finish off the new wood I fit to previously- bubba'd-but-now-restored rifles.
I suppose there are ways of using the repro stamps correctly to make a faithful reproduction, but still make it obvious that it's a repro. I think this is important to preserving history too - e.g. I saw some uberti trap doors. Wouldn't mind having one - unlike an original you can shoot jacketed bullets in it without destroying the barrel. Keeping awareness alive is just as important as preserving the original peices.
But, I think you all are talking about the practice of taking original stocks and weapons and re-stamping missing or faded marks? To me that strips the service history from the weapon and is an abomination. It's no where near the same bucket as steaming dents, remove grime to feel the wood again, etc...improve fit and function for continued service.
I remember you suggesting that in the other post...Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgross
Sure, that way you're assured it's done correctly...Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
I bought a carbine once with a known fake CC. Good price and the rest of the parts were real (mixmaster rebuild). First thing I did was sand off the fake CC and refinish the stock, only then did it look right to me. Funny thing was it was an SA potbelly :)
All the fake stuff is a disgrace, but it's been in every collecting corner since the beginning.
Gotta love Ole Bardall's in depth stamping instructions on his website. :thdown:
Here are the cartouches on my repro stock:
https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...1&d=1244039610
Yeah, there aren't any. I've still got the original stock and want to get it refurbished one day.
Bob
Damn Bob,
Was that General Eisenhower's chair? :rolleyes:
Repro or not that's a beautiful stock. I wouldn't ruin it either with some Fake Stampings.
For years now I've taken a rolled up backpacking bed mat I use on the shooting bench or as a ground mat. Even if I have shooter stocks on I try my best to take care of them. No shame in looking good.
My $10 to your $1 that you placed it gently on Ike's chair so you wouldn't scratch it for picture day. ;)
I replied (copied below) about 11-1/2 years ago, in a post by David Barnett when he was pointing out the best Repro Rock Ola Cartouche we had seen. Seller was S-T-B on GB. Carbine was a Rock Ola with a mix of reparked GI parts, Repro parts and reproduction stock with the Rock Ola Stampings. They skirted around the description by not calling it Original, but you'd of thought it was the way their listings read. Most know what I mean.
It fetched $3500 in 2009. Those Stampings can blind guys to what's really under the hood.
My reply #13:
"IMO,
A stock is ruined once a Repro/Faked Stamp is applied.
We know many were lightly stamped and easily wore off with general wear and tear.
Others sanded off when rack numbers were applied.
Repro parts can be replaced......but that nice piece of old growth walnut is ruined for life.
Are we also at the stage where Replica Stamps are acceptable?
I hope not"
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16511
I circled the wagons and have kept my eyes open on the lookout for Fakes just a few months after getting in to this hobby. We call it a hobby but doesn't take long until you can call them Investments. These Repro/Fake parts and markings are becoming the norm and will soon out number real originals. If they haven't already and will continue as values go up.
Maybe until collectors stop parts swapping.
But most of you already know this.
With all this said, I'm guilty of knowingly buying a Fake Type II barrel band we used to rig up a sling on a friends Grandson's 28 gauge. And have purchased 2 replacement Swivels with screws for Type I bands to replace lost ones from Northridge. :surrender:
Be careful out there....