LC52 Headstamp - Legit Lake City Ammo???

Read the article about corrosive Chinese .30 carbine ammo headstamped LC 52 in the Jan 09 Carbine Club newsletter - and noticed 550 rnds of ammo, headstamped "LC52" being sold on GB ("30 carbine 550 rounds lake city Auction # 125953241"). The headstamp isn't pictured, but the boxes do not appear to contain the manufacturer's name, and the printing is in blue ink (these are two points that were raised in the article as beingindicative of the phony LC ammo). I'm guessing that, even with a shortage of .20 cal ammo, this isn't worth taking the chance.

Any thoughts on this?

The Chinese .30 carbine ammo is packed in thin cheap cardboard 50-round boxes that are rubber-stamped "7.62 MM". The cartridges are headstamped "LC 52". They are Berdan primed, and are as corrosive as battery acid. There is a lot of it around. At the last two Chantilly gun shows, Billy Printz was selling it, claiming it was Lake City GI ammo, although two people I know told him what it really was. I wouldn't buy it under any circumstances. If you have any doubt as to what it is, pull one of the bullets and check for the two flash holes in the base of the cartridge.

Yes, that auction is the Chinese carbine ammo.

Scott

I think the real LC 52 ammo had primer sealant and the china stuff does not as well.

The first thing to look for is the color of the primer. If it's brass colored it's most likely Chinese as most if not all USGI LC-52 were silver in color. The best way to tell is to pull a round and look for the amount of flash holes present in the bottom of the case. One is USGI and two in Chinese. The boxes are a give away as they are not even close to USGI boxes and the printing on them is rubber stamped as stated above.

LC52 Ammo

To add to the confusion, Georgia Arms was, until a few months ago, selling ammo with LC 52 headstamps. It was good clean Boxer primed brass reloads with GI type ball bullets.

Was almost taken in at our local gun show last month. Fellow had three bandoleers of "LC 53" at $40 each, the bandoleers looked new and the primers were brass. It didn't look nor feel right and in the back of my mind I remembered an article regarding the fake Chinese ammo. I passed. Ordered some Aguilar from the CMP on Jan. 22 and got a hit on my credit card Friday. Hopefully it will come soon.

Thanks to all who commented.

It's obvious to me (now) that this is precisely the Chinese ammo that was mentioned in the Carbine Club newsletter.

I've been on GB, looking at other auctions - one seller had 250 rounds of "Lake City" up for sale. Four boxes of 50 each were in properly marked boxes (and all that proves is that the box is ok, not the ammo inside of it. One box of 50 was the blue-stamped box, likely with Chinese ammo.

Have also seen one seller, selling the same stuff, but at least he indicated that it was "berdan" primed. Of course, if you don't know what that means, and you don't clean your carbine, God help you...

I am looking at a box of them right now. Blue stamped 7.62 MM LC. Light brown box and stapled at the sides.

I was given these and then I found out they were Chinese and shouldn't be fired. Information source said that these were made up to be used in the M1 Carbines that Victor Charlie captured.

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Originally Posted by A. F Medic

I am looking at a box of them right now. Blue stamped 7.62 MM LC. Light brown box and stapled at the sides.
I was given these and then I found out they were Chinese and shouldn't be fired. Information source said that these were made up to be used in the M1 Carbines that Victor Charlie captured.

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More likely a Korean War erea item, although the Chinese were making copies of USGI arms for various forms of Commie mischief through the 1970s.

FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.

Regards, Ed Mann

Bobby Bowden is doing a fine job - just leave him alone.

Albert says, "Click here for free Gator wallpaper."

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by A. F Medic

Information source said that these were made up to be used in the M1 Carbines that Victor Charlie captured.

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Maybe. It's at least as likely that it was intended to disguise the origin, to keep someone from knowing that the Chinese were supplying ammo to insurgents.

I used to have brand new Lake City .30 Carbine ammo boxes that had never been folded. No lot # marked on them, either. If they weren't "real" they surely looked just like GI boxes. I've wondered how many of those were floating about just waiting to be filled w/ the Chinese "crusty/rusty" cartridges...

Here are some bandoleers of LC 52 that I bought a few years ago. They were in the pictured can, but it was open. They all have brass colored primers, but I'm thinking they are U.S.G.I. Lake City. I sure could be wrong though.

Greg V

Stonewall, I waited 7 months before the CMP Aquila ammo came. However if they hit you credit card it should be coming soon.
Peter

It took 6 months for mine. I picked up 500 rounds of LC69 right after I got my carbine and it was nice boxer primed. That and I love guys that leave their brass. It reloads just fine.:thup:

...I'm betting the seller shot the ammo that came in the can and refilled it with the Chink stuff. To be sure , just pull a bullet and see if it has one flash hole ( USGI ) or two ( CHINK ).

As an aside , I picked up some 30 carb at a show here 2 months ago. A mix of stuff from various venders. Two boxes of this stuff was mixed in with a 50 cal can of LC71. I pulled them and used them for plinking after a sighting in session with my carbines ( have 13 , decided to get serious about having them hit where I aim ). I know most went through the M2 in full auto , but some went through the 3 Wins I had out then. Just by luck , as I was trying groups from all my ammo ( Winchester , PMC , USGI , etc.) , It included some reloaded tracer ammo. I therefore cleaned with WW2 GI bore cleaner in addition to my regular cleaning steps. I'll need to pull these 4 agin tonight to check for rust , but I'm not really worried. I'm more thankfull of this tread because I was able to pull the spent brass from that outing and separate the berdans before it got into the large brass stash for reloading.:cheers:

Chris

I was a little nervous there for a bit. I pulled one of the bullets and found only one flash hole. So, maybe mine is U.S.G.I. with brass colored primers. I bought the can at a little gun shop in Billings, MT about 5 years ago for $100. I thought it was a great find until I thought it might be the Chinese junk. Maybe it was a great find after all.

Greg

Greg you have the real deal. Most of the real 52 LC has a silver primer but yours is the first I have seen with a brass colored primer that is real USGI.

Hey Greg, according to that, you did good!!.....Frank

...I just finished pulling down and checking my 5 carbines that some I know had this stuff through them , though some might not have. No sign , after at least 4-5 weeks from shooting / cleaning , of any rust. Even pulled all nuts and pistons , ( don't do this as a rule , but this was a special case ) all clean except for powder residue stains , no rust signs.
Like I said , USGI WW2 bore cleaner , the white milky stuff , it was made for this. Soak it down good at the range , haul it home , ( lets it soak for 1/2 to 1 hour) , clean completely with your normal stuff , wipe dry when finished. Resoak for 1/2 to 1 hour with it again. Dry off and oil like normal .
Works for me , and note that while I live in a "dry" desert , this last month or so has been very wet.
Chris

It's good to know that it is the real deal and from the prices of the USGI that I have seen lately, I do believe that I did get a great deal.

I don't know how much of this stuff is still out there, but check this GB Auction.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=210266416
My brother shot a couple of boxes of it through his CMP Inland a couple of years ago and it seemed to work fine - the gun cleaned up OK with no ill effects. I still have one of the empty boxes and it is identical to those in the auction.
- Bob

I shot hundreds of it back in the '90s before I knew about corrosive. I always clean after each firing session but will take extra measures if I fire corrosive. I've never noticed any corrosion in that carbine, including the gas system, such as it is. Speaking strictly in the technical sense, there is no reason you can't use it with proper cleaning immediately after firing. Corrosive residues have to be flushed out with a water-based cleaner like an emulsion of Ballistol:water. Then you clean/oil as usual, using straight Ballistol.

Type 56? Had primers that looked like the same brass as the cases, no difference whatsoever. I still have a couple kicking around here. It was a very coppery color, not the straw color of US brass.

Six days to go on the GB auction and the bid is above $20/box. Do you think the seller actually knows what he is selling? I thought my brother got stung when he paid $15/box at a CA gun show. "Buy it Now" is just $50/box! http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=210266416

The copper color is a copper wash that the complete round is put through. The cases are steel as are the projectiles, and the copper coating does help. I shot a bunch of it in the 80s when I had a Type 56 Poly-Tech. VERY CORROSIVE! Didn't clean the gas tube immediately after firing and it was RUSTED!!!! It still worked, though!

The stuff my brother had came in the same boxes shown on the auction. The cases were brass - not plated steel. I don't know about the bullets - they are long gone! :D

Here's some pics showing the box and one case I still have:

Attachment 19080Attachment 19082Attachment 19081Attachment 19084Attachment 19083