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Certainly the most impressive abandonment of military equipment since Dunkirk.
About 120 modern a/c as well, and best of all, biometric details of just about all Afghans who "worked with the United States since we went there".
I guess the Taliban will make a few bucks selling off all that stuff - now I wonder who would want to buy it?:rolleyes:
Tucker: Whenever you think weve reached peak insanity, Biden doubles-down - YouTube
Let's be careful with this thread. Although it's not directly political, it has the potential to go off the rails and into politics. I'll leave it up for now. ;)
If you wish to discuss the politics of this, then please use the appropriate venue described in the thread titled Where can I discuss politics and gun legislation issues? (click here).
Regards,
Doug
We evacuated around 330,000 British and allied personnel off the beaches of Dunkirk yet it was still a military disaster and some effort was made to destroy at least some of the equipment left behind in France.
The important thing now is that those Americans and other foreign nationals still in Afghanistan who do still need to get out find a way of doing so. One can't expect the White House to publicly explain their plans to evacuate the remaining Americans before any such plans have been executed because, presumably, the Taliban listen to the news.
I still believe that the "West" will have to go back into Afghanistan at some point in the future, like it or not.
Be aware of the source of the 'news'. Much equipment was transferred to Afghanistan over more than a decade, IIRC, so belonging officially to the previous Afghan government. How much was really 'abandoned'? Good question. How much did the USSR leave behind? Another good question.
As to the West interfering in Afghanistan in the future, good luck. All previous 'interferences' over the centuries were strenuously opposed by the Afghanis, 'successfully' as history shows. It might be better to allow them to determine their own future.
Don't forget spare parts and ammunition.
Apparently they the Taliban now have more Blackhawk helicopters that the Australian Armed Forces!
Most of this equipment did belong to the Afghan government so not exactly sure how much blame is deserved and who it belongs too.
That being said, none of this is going to have the top of the line specifications in current use in the US military. It shouldn't anyway. That stuff is not generally transferred to minor allies. There are reports some of it has already been transferred to Iran which is interesting. The Taliban probably has little use for it. They aren't planning on taking over anyone else and wouldn't have the capability of maintaining it for very long anyway. Spare parts will become an issue pretty fast, especially with the more technologically advanced stuff.
It was still a massive debacle.
I hope I'm not belabouring the point, but debacle for whom? Depends on your perception, doesn't it?
We have interfered in Afghanistan's internal affairs long enough. It is now up to them, however they do it. Yes, it probably may go badly for a time, who knows?
I entirely agree about leaving them alone. "War is [often] a Racket" ,as General Smedley Butler USMC titled his book long, long ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by Daan Kemp
Debacle, yes. Leaving them alone? Not sure. Several ways it could go in my opinion. Could be a lot of infighting, not allowing a government to get established. Could be that they follow whoever the leader is now. Or some other version. I fully expect that we haven't heard the last of that country, and it won't be too long before they start up some sort of trouble with a different country. Also expect despite what has been said by the President, I fully expect we, or someone, will have to return to Afghanistan, and that will return will be very costly.
It is all the "other terrorist groups and hangers on" that flock to Afghanistan, if they are not already there that will be the problem to the outside world. The welfare, rights and wellbeing of the ordinary people of Afghanistan is a separate and important issue which must also be considered.
The "West" will have to decide how much of a terrorist training ground and safe haven they wish to tolerate Afghanistan becoming again before they are ready "to go back in".
Regardless of who actually owned the equipment left behind, I believe the biggest threat, regarding equipment, is where that equipment may eventually end up.
When the Soviets left Afghanistan and the Taliban took control they, the Taliban, could have equipped themselves with a fairly well equipped "army" with all the Soviet equipment that was left behind. That didn't appear to happen and I don't expect this time to be much different. The kit that doesn't end up in 3rd countries I fully expect to be "squandered and trashed".
Yes, more or less continuous war since 1980 has thoroughly radicalized a society that was relatively peaceful before, and somewhat liberalized in the urban centres. Just as the overthrow of Mossadeq and the installation of Pahlavi achieved in Iran.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
Hopefully most of the equipment will turn to junk from lack of proper maintenance. One has to wonder how much if any was rendered NS before the withdrawal?
This is probably as good a summation of the realities as any.
We couldn't form a peaceful country in 20 yrs. Are we going to go back for another 100yrs. It failed!
In other words it could be what may possibly happen outside of Afghanistan as a result of the Taliban takeover that may cause the "West" problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
The Taliban may decide to turn Afghanistan into a peace loving pacifist country that doesn't harbour terrorist and doesn't give them a safe haven; somehow I doubt it.
Really great article. Bit of a read but I snuck in bits of it throughout the day, just finished up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Thanks for sharing!
One could quite easily draw comparisons to Vietnam -- a country divided, foreign intervention, human rights, etc.
Glad it was of interest. The NY'er is increasingly on the left, but it is at least somewhat intelligently so. The article is only one perspective, but as you noted the final analysis is what effect does all this have on the mass of the population and the basic facts of their day to day lives? That will determine who and what they support.
I had a roommate in college that was from Vietnam — as in, he was only here for school and then moved back.
He was from WAY north in Vietnam, grew up super poor. He told me once he didn’t SEE a lightbulb until he was eight (so around the early ‘90s).
He was too young to have any personal memories of the war but tells me he’s heard stories that match pretty closely to Shakira’s. Constantly moving, fear of invaders (of any type), relatives conscripted, and so on.
I wish I had talked more with him on this now. I was too busy sampling the culinary aspects of his culture!!