TheGunMag: "M1 Carbine the Most Versatile Rifle"

Hello gents

I was google searching a nut tool and I found this article by TheGunMag for sure most of you know the interesting data in there like an M1 was the favorite weapon of America’s most decorated WW2 hero, Audie Murphy. I think some rookies like me would like to read the article.

G.I. M1 Carbine: The Most Versatile Rifle - TheGunMag - The Official Gun Magazine of the Second Amendment FoundationTheGunMag The Official Gun Magazine of the Second Amendment Foundation
Have a nice day :beerchug:

A great article. However I'd mention that the nylon magazine pouch for the 30 round M16 magazines will take five 30 round carbine magazines side by side after the dividing straps have been cut out. Yes, I sacrificed two nylon pouches after they had been declared obsolete and we were issued load bearing vests. I had a bunch anyway.

I've spent quite a while trying to figure out why I think the author is wrong, only to come to the conclusion that he may be correct.

I've always loved the M1 Carbine, and have had several. And while I think this article is a little too generous, the carbine is very versatile. If it were the only firearm you had, you'd be just fine. Its good for home defense, animal control, short-range medium-game hunting, beginner instruction, WWII collecting, etc, etc, etc.

If you could only own one, its a good choice. And I guess that does make it a nominee for most versatile.

If the laws here in Canada were different, I'd never have parted with mine. I've had about 25 over time and all of the prime contractors except IP. All the different features and serial numbers... I think they still work well and have potential, but the availability of parts and ammo here bring it to the shooter to cast and load his own. Parts are short here too, so if you wanted to use it for your front line carbine, you might be suffering once the parts start to wear.

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Originally Posted by champ0608

I've spent quite a while trying to figure out why I think the author is wrong, only to come to the conclusion that he may be correct.

I've always loved the M1 Carbine, and have had several. And while I think this article is a little too generous, the carbine is very versatile. If it were the only firearm you had, you'd be just fine. Its good for home defense, animal control, short-range medium-game hunting, beginner instruction, WWII collecting, etc, etc, etc.

If you could only own one, its a good choice. And I guess that does make it a nominee for most versatile.

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I've always liked the M1 30 caliber Carbine, it was the first rifle I bought after leaving active duty in 1974. A light handy carbine more easily wielded than the M16 and sufficient to do the job if well aimed. No, it's not equal to rifle cartridges, but if kept within it's parameters it is a good cartridge and the M1 Carbine is a decent enough carbine within those parameters.

Agreed with all that Eb...

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Originally Posted by eb in oregon

A great article. However I'd mention that the nylon magazine pouch for the 30 round M16 magazines will take five 30 round carbine magazines side by side after the dividing straps have been cut out. Yes, I sacrificed two nylon pouches after they had been declared obsolete and we were issued load bearing vests. I had a bunch anyway.

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Thanks for share :beerchug:

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Originally Posted by champ0608

I've spent quite a while trying to figure out why I think the author is wrong, only to come to the conclusion that he may be correct.

I've always loved the M1 Carbine, and have had several. And while I think this article is a little too generous, the carbine is very versatile. If it were the only firearm you had, you'd be just fine. Its good for home defense, animal control, short-range medium-game hunting, beginner instruction, WWII collecting, etc, etc, etc.

If you could only own one, its a good choice. And I guess that does make it a nominee for most versatile.

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I totally agree with you, in the beginning, I thought that It would be like a fan infomercial, but then when I saw the numbers I realize that I was wrong.
Thanks for your reply :beerchug:

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

If the laws here in Canada were different, I'd never have parted with mine. I've had about 25 over time and all of the prime contractors except IP. All the different features and serial numbers... I think they still work well and have potential, but the availability of parts and ammo here bring it to the shooter to cast and load his own. Parts are short here too, so if you wanted to use it for your front line carbine, you might be suffering once the parts start to wear.

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Hey Jim,
Which were your favorite ones?
Regards :beerchug:

The only real problem I have with the article is his insistence on cleaning the gas cylinder. They were designed to be self cleaning. Out of the 30+ carbines that I've owned over the years, only 1 ever needed to have the piston pulled and the port/cylinder cleaned and that was the one Saginaw that didn't like cast bullets. I just wish I could use mine for deer hunting here in Ohio. .357 revolvers are allowed and the carbine has more power than that. And our ranges for deer are usually pretty short. I guess I'll just have to stick to my 1873 Winchester clone in .45 colt.

Somehow we have gone from the generation where the gun was a tool (think rusty shovels, dull axes, bent rounded screwdrivers) to the I have to always take everything apart and get every bit of gunk out of it generation. Yes I obsess at times, but the M1 Carbine is best set up right and left intact when it comes to cleaning. The M1 Carbine always elicits either praise or scorn. Used in it's intended purpose: as pistol replacement that everyone can shoot well it excels. When you start to get out of that comfort zone and get into Battle Rifle replacement, Assault Rifle, Sub-machine gun, long range weapon or target rifle you start to see the faults. Paper power is fine, but the 357 out of a rifle has more weight and more diameter, maybe not as fast. However, an SP Carbine bullet is no slouch either. Either way a good shot has venison in the freezer. I have loaded for the M1 since I was 16 but if I had to live with it day to day, it would be Winchester, Remington or Federal 110 SP's all day long.

Dave

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Originally Posted by jimb16

The only real problem I have with the article is his insistence on cleaning the gas cylinder.

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Agreed Jim,
I do understand the need for some cases of R and R of the gas piston and nut, just like the example Eb shared with us about the heavy lead fouled gas cylinder.

But in the article... Where the Author states:
"The reliability of the M1 carbine has never been a problem."

Further down the Author talks about A:
"Most jams with the M1 carbine can be traced back to not using a gas piston nut wrench to take the tappit gas system apart for cleaning."

My understanding was the Gas Piston and Nut were to be serviced by the Armorer or at least not by the regular GI. Likely because of the Nut being Staked.

That said, I'd think most Jams would lead back to: B: weak Op spring, lack of lube, or dirty.
The most common Jamming or FTF cause we hear about are usually Magazine Related Issues- Some having sagging magazines with worn mag catch nubs. Or Magazines with weak or backward installed springs. And sometimes bent in or out feed edges.

When Troubleshooting: Where Most jams with the M1 carbine can be traced back to... (?)

I'd start with B over A first.

YMMV,

@ Eddie, Thx for the article ... :thup:
Try our SEARCH FEATURE for some great posts about Audie Murphy, pictures, etc.

Good Week All

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Originally Posted by jimb16

The only real problem I have with the article is his insistence on cleaning the gas cylinder. They were designed to be self cleaning. Out of the 30+ carbines that I've owned over the years, only 1 ever needed to have the piston pulled and the port/cylinder cleaned and that was the one Saginaw that didn't like cast bullets. I just wish I could use mine for deer hunting here in Ohio. .357 revolvers are allowed and the carbine has more power than that. And our ranges for deer are usually pretty short. I guess I'll just have to stick to my 1873 Winchester clone in .45 colt.

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Hey Jim,
Do you remember if that Saginaw nut cylinder was kind of untight right?
From those 30+ M1 carbines wich were your favorites and why? Which do you still keep?
Regards :beerchug:

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Originally Posted by Wineman

Somehow we have gone from the generation where the gun was a tool (think rusty shovels, dull axes, bent rounded screwdrivers) to the I have to always take everything apart and get every bit of gunk out of it generation. Yes I obsess at times, but the M1 Carbine is best set up right and left intact when it comes to cleaning. The M1 Carbine always elicits either praise or scorn. Used in it's intended purpose: as pistol replacement that everyone can shoot well it excels. When you start to get out of that comfort zone and get into Battle Rifle replacement, Assault Rifle, Sub-machine gun, long range weapon or target rifle you start to see the faults. Paper power is fine, but the 357 out of a rifle has more weight and more diameter, maybe not as fast. However, an SP Carbine bullet is no slouch either. Either way a good shot has venison in the freezer. I have loaded for the M1 since I was 16 but if I had to live with it day to day, it would be Winchester, Remington or Federal 110 SP's all day long.

Dave

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Hey Wineman,
I´m with you, I think a gun is a tool, I really enjoy taking everything apart to clean. Wow for sure you know well the M1 carbine, do you feel confident using the carbine for all the purposes you mentioned?
I´ve seen some videos where the authors state that the 30 carbine out of the M1 is similar to the 44 magnums in a revolver.
Have you tried Aguila ammo? They meet SAAMI and CPI (European) standards.
Regards:beerchug:

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Originally Posted by painter777

Agreed Jim,
I do understand the need for some cases of R and R of the gas piston and nut, just like the example Eb shared with us about the heavy lead fouled gas cylinder.

But in the article... Where the Author states:
"The reliability of the M1 carbine has never been a problem."

Further down the Author talks about A:
"Most jams with the M1 carbine can be traced back to not using a gas piston nut wrench to take the tappit gas system apart for cleaning."

My understanding was the Gas Piston and Nut were to be serviced by the Armorer or at least not by the regular GI. Likely because of the Nut being Staked.

That said, I'd think most Jams would lead back to: B: weak Op spring, lack of lube, or dirty.
The most common Jamming or FTF cause we hear about are usually Magazine Related Issues- Some having sagging magazines with worn mag catch nubs. Or Magazines with weak or backward installed springs. And sometimes bent in or out feed edges.

When Troubleshooting: Where Most jams with the M1 carbine can be traced back to... (?)

I'd start with B over A first.

YMMV,

@ Eddie, Thx for the article ... :thup:
Try our SEARCH FEATURE for some great posts about Audie Murphy, pictures, etc.

Good Week All

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Hola Carlito,
Thx for the very interesting reply.
I will try the search feature :beerchug:

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Originally Posted by EddieM

Which were your favorite ones?

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I liked them all.

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Originally Posted by Wineman

Somehow we have gone from the generation where the gun was a tool (think rusty shovels, dull axes, bent rounded screwdrivers) to the I have to always take everything apart and get every bit of gunk out of it generation. Yes I obsess at times, but the M1 Carbine is best set up right and left intact when it comes to cleaning. The M1 Carbine always elicits either praise or scorn. Used in it's intended purpose: as pistol replacement that everyone can shoot well it excels. When you start to get out of that comfort zone and get into Battle Rifle replacement, Assault Rifle, Sub-machine gun, long range weapon or target rifle you start to see the faults. Paper power is fine, but the 357 out of a rifle has more weight and more diameter, maybe not as fast. However, an SP Carbine bullet is no slouch either. Either way a good shot has venison in the freezer. I have loaded for the M1 since I was 16 but if I had to live with it day to day, it would be Winchester, Remington or Federal 110 SP's all day long.

Dave

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I agree with every thing you have said with the exception of the M1 Carbine not being a good "sub-machine gun" as the M2 is every bit as capable as any sub-machine gun with the exception of the newer subcompact versions of sub-machine guns. That's a size issue that can be addressed, but still bigger than the newer sub compacts. It's more accurate than a 9x19 or a .45acp gun (and half the weight of a Thompson) in my opinion and reaches out there a bit further, but unfortunately our military decided to merely obsolete the M1 and M2 Carbine and give it to numerous country's and then replace the several weapons of an infantry squad with only full caliber rifles and the accompanying machine gun. And as more modern times have demonstrated the M2 is still a viable firearm for personal protection and other needs.

Edit: And truthfully the sub compact sub-machine guns aren't meant for anything but close up work and do poorly at distances longer than 50 yards.

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Originally Posted by painter777

My understanding was the Gas Piston and Nut were to be serviced by the Armorer or at least not by the regular GI. Likely because of the Nut being Staked.

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Charlie, page down to the gas piston section of this thread. Seems that a regular G.I. was able to do it but under supervision of an armorer.
PS Magazine the Prnthly - The Carbine Collector's Club

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Originally Posted by W5USMC

Seems that a regular G.I. was able to do it but under supervision of an armorer.

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That would be unrealistic. That's why the tool was taken off the back of the trigger housing. Armorers have better things to do than supervise mudrollers...

I don't have a favorite carbine. If I did have to choose one, it would likely be Underwoods due to the fact that I think the barrels are slightly better than any others. Otherwise, I think they are all pretty much equal. I do have to agree with Painter. Nearly all of the problems that I've had with carbines over the years have been mag related.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Armorers have better things to do than supervise mudrollers...

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Maybe so at times, but I distinctly remember many times when the armorers were busy playing spades in the armory while "supervising" Unit weapons cleaning sessions. :dunno:

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Originally Posted by W5USMC

Maybe so at times, but I distinctly remember many times when the armorers were busy playing spades in the armory while "supervising" Unit weapons cleaning sessions. :dunno:

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In all the years I and my fellow soldiers cleaned and maintained our rifles about the only "supervision" we got from the armorers was when attempting to turn it in was for the armorer to stick a q-tip somewhere and find a bit of grey on the swab and say "No, it's not clean." Regardless weapons aren't supposed to be sterilized and the standards were/are "oiled, clean and serviceable." More weapons have been worn out from over cleaning than expended in combat IMO.

Yep, the magazine is the weak link. If nothing else for it’s flimsy construction. I have been sort of looking looking for somebody that does 3D printing. I will even settle for knowing somebody, that knows somebody that knows somebody who can 3D print. What I want to do with a magazine may not even be 3D print feasible, but I won’t know until I ask.

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Originally Posted by W5USMC

times when the armorers were busy playing spades in the armory

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Got to agree with you there. I didn't mean they were overworked, I was always rifle company and we never saw them unless it was ATI time.

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Originally Posted by eb in oregon

More weapons have been worn out from over cleaning than expended in combat IMO.

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That's a fact.

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Originally Posted by flydthecat

Yep, the magazine is the weak link. If nothing else for it’s flimsy construction. I have been sort of looking looking for somebody that does 3D printing. I will even settle for knowing somebody, that knows somebody that knows somebody who can 3D print. What I want to do with a magazine may not even be 3D print feasible, but I won’t know until I ask.

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Hello
would you share if you find the 3D mag, please?
Regards

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Originally Posted by flydthecat

I have been sort of looking looking for somebody that does 3D printing.

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Floyd,

While doing a google search: '3d printed m1 carbine magazine'
I stumbled on a number of files that were shared and this video:

M1 Carbine Cartridges + Magazine | 3D Printing - YouTube

This article mentions 3D Hubs a company that helps you find those individuals or small businesses near you that can make whatever you want.
How to 3D Print Anything (Even If You Dont Own a 3D Printer)

FWIW

Nah Painter, I'll stick with my steel magazines, import or not, as all have worked splendidly for many years.

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Originally Posted by eb in oregon

Nah Painter,

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@ Eb,
I'm not sure what Floyd has in mind, but do know he's a 'Slick Cat'.
I don't know much about 3D printing and didn't realize things can be made from more than plastic until I read a little about it and looked at files/plans.
I did see shared plans for Carbine mag block inserts that will fill a 15 down to a capacity of 10 or 5.
Also seen Mag plans for the Crosman BB Carbines, which are often missing.
No idea how expensive something printed for you would cost :dunno:

I had a good friend that could have used some bullets made up for his over size cut away trainers. We looked for years and never could find extras so he'd have enough for display.

But I agree about steel, I have more mags still wrapped than I'll use in my lifetime.

Safe Weekend,

Sorry, that work thing had me going for a few days. The old story of "Jack of all trades, Master at none" is what I was thinking. The fully auto M2 Carbine with the A1 stock is probably as close as we will get to a sub gun as you get. Was it as good as an M3?, Sten, Owen, MP40, PPsh? Wooden stock, long barrel, muzzle flash, lots of lightweight parts. The stories of Japanese who captured M1 Carbines, could not believe that every Marine could have one. Once WW2 started, there were precious few items produced that were truly awful. We can agree to disagree on the merits/faults of Sherman Tanks, SB2c Helldivers, B-17's (I'm a fan of all but each had issues, and more numbers was not one of them). The M1 Carbine is no different. The M1911 pistol it was supposed to replace stayed in service for another 60 years and is still being produced in some form or another today, going strong at 110 years. The 45 ACP is not dead either, 45 sub-guns not so much.

Even today you can find Carbine magazines in the original wrap. They were not made to last 80 years, probably not made to last 5 years. Throw it away and get a new one because there were plenty.

I'm a fan of Jack Nicholson and in a Few Good Men he said "have you ever put your life in another man's hands?" (paraphrasing here). Well for me if I had to put my life in a company's hands it is Remington, Winchester or Federal. No particular order. Carry what you want, but my choice is 110 SP's from any of these companies. If you fire a few hundred of your favorite and no issues, have at it. None of the big 3 have ever let me down.

I love M1 Carbines, but like most things, there are compromises and as I said the farther you get from pistol replacement for REMF's the more complaints you get.

If the M1 Carbine development had continued as did the AR15/M16 we may have a different story. A tweak here, a correction there, you had essentially the same rifle in 1968 as you did on 1942.

Deer under 100 yards, look out.

Dave

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Originally Posted by painter777

Floyd,

While doing a google search: '3d printed m1 carbine magazine'
I stumbled on a number of files that were shared and this video:

M1 Carbine Cartridges + Magazine | 3D Printing - YouTube

This article mentions 3D Hubs a company that helps you find those individuals or small businesses near you that can make whatever you want.
How to 3D Print Anything (Even If You Dont Own a 3D Printer)

FWIW

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Thanks for the info Charlie. One can find horror stories about feed issues anywhere on any forum and the culprit is usually the magazine. I have discovered that a certain polymer magazine will feed any projectile profile that will fit in it. I believe the magazines were probably injection molded, but in todays world could possibly be 3D printed in metal and the capacity increased at the same time. Single-stack, more durable, impervious to rust and corrosion and no feed lips to monkey with.

I have a childish inventive mind trapped in a 74-year old body.

After reading everything ever written by SLA Marshall, my opinion on the carbine in combat is all about how it did in Korea. It wasn't about freezing, or weak hitting power, it was about running out of ammunition in 10 minutes. There were stories of guys going out on patrol with 60 rounds as a basic load. Take that and have it in the hands of a scared to death kid with an M2 switch and those 60 rounds are gone in minutes. Because the carbine could not be replenished off stripper clips like say the M14 can today, the problem compounds. I've got 5 empty magazines and to refill them and put me back into the fight, I have to either hunt for that 50 round box I know that I have somewhere and put them in one at a time. Wait, there are 10 round stripper clips. But I need the little kit that comes with the bandoleer where is that little tool from the bandoleer? In Vietnam I had a full automatic M14. In the truck I would carry a laundry bag full of 20 rd magazines 15 or more. That's the answer to ammunition problems. The carbine just wasn't planned as a high volume shooter but they made it one anyway. Marines in WW2 made it work because it wasn't full auto and they were Marines, they ate and slept rifle accuracy and management.

Re gas piston cleaning: I actually took out the piston on my Winchester and it and the cylinder looked brand new and squeaky clean. A total waste of time. Staking also purposely damages threads to keep a nut from coming loose. When you override the staked/damaged threads you are looking for trouble. I put my Winchester back together by moving the nut back and forth like a tap would be used to avoid a cross thread. I'd advise anyone else making this mistake to do the same. I believe that the threads are more of a pipe thread than machined thread, they cut their way through problem areas making them candidates for damaging more than what's already been done.

[QUOTE=DaveHH;506739] But I need the little kit that comes with the bandoleer where is that little tool from the bandoleer?


If you're referring to the stripper clip guide that fits over the back of the mag when charging it, it's attached to the clips themselves, at least it is on all the ones I have...

[QUOTE=jakester;506749]

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

But I need the little kit that comes with the bandoleer where is that little tool from the bandoleer?


If you're referring to the stripper clip guide that fits over the back of the mag when charging it, it's attached to the clips themselves, at least it is on all the ones I have...

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I've bought re-pack kits both ways.
Listed as "old style" with the charger attached to each clip and "new style" with 1 charger per pack. They both work.

"New Style" being cheaper. :)

Of course "where is that little tool from the bandoleer?" could just as easily apply to reloading M16 magazines.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyDollar

Of course "where is that little tool from the bandoleer?" could just as easily apply to reloading M16icon magazines.

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Difference being that the average 11B was carrying 400 rds and bandoleers were filled with 7 20 rd magazines full of ammunition.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

Difference being that the average 11B was carrying 400 rds and bandoleers were filled with 7 20 rd magazines full of ammunition.

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OK, I guess I'm not getting your point,
all I meant was that M1 Carbine magazines are reloadable from stripper clips.
.30 Carbine ammo was generally loaded on 10 rnd stripper clips which have an integrated guide on each clip, so there is no searching for the guide.
At least, that is how all my surplus Korean .30carbine always came.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyDollar

OK, I guess I'm not getting your point,
all I meant was that M1 Carbine magazines are reloadable from stripper clips.
.30 Carbine ammo was generally loaded on 10 rnd stripper clips which have an integrated guide on each clip, so there is no searching for the guide.
At least, that is how all my surplus Korean .30carbine always came.

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Really, only a "Newbi" goes into combat without more loaded magazines than he should carry and the gear to recharge those magazines is usually closely inspected before walking out the wire.

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Originally Posted by eb in oregon

Really, only a "Newbi" goes into combat without more loaded magazines than he should carry and the gear to recharge those magazines is usually closely inspected before walking out the wire.

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Exactly,
The the army basic load for an M1/M2 Carbine issued with 30rnd magazines was 7 magazines. 1 in the rifle and 3 in each pouch for a total of 210rnds.
I'm sure guys carried more magazines.

However, if guys were given 2 magazines (60rds) and told to reload them in the field,
that is not really an issue with the carbine, that's a supply and/or leadership problem.

The fact that the Carbine was issued and used in ways it was never designed for, kind of speaks to the posted article about the M1 Carbine being versatile.

Hi Johnny, I got exactly what you were saying, and you are completely correct. I mention this problem because of what I read in SLAM's writing ( "Pork Chop Hill" "The River and the Gauntlet" etc.) on Korea. My comments are just aimed at the carbine as a full automatic weapon.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

Hi Johnny, I got exactly what you were saying, and you are completely correct. I mention this problem because of what I read in SLAM's writing ( "Pork Chop Hill" "The River and the Gauntlet" etc.) on Korea. My comments are just aimed at the carbine as a full automatic weapon.

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Gotcha.

From what I have read, the M2 was not easy to control on full auto.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyDollar

Gotcha.

From what I have read, the M2 was not easy to control on full auto.

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Actually it is very controlable. Far easier than an M16E1 in my experience. Like all automatic weapons, it's not merely the volume of fire, it's controlled automatic fire. Pull the trigger and spray, well, that's not good. Controlled bursts only, and that's only when they are right on top of you if a "Grunt" and not the machine gunner. His job is to lay down suppressive fire while riflemen seek to deliver decisive shots.

I used to have a registered M2. It was very easy to control. I've shot many different full autos and the M2 was among the easiest to handle in full auto mode.

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Originally Posted by jimb16

I used to have a registered M2. It was very easy to control. I've shot many different full autos and the M2 was among the easiest to handle in full auto mode.

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Try this one, it's really easy:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...27568c_z-1.jpg

I have and it was! The other one was a MAC in .380. It fired so fast that the mag was empty before the gun recoiled!!!!

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

Try this one, it's really easy:

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Yes, I had one. Mine was a Guide Lamp but I forget what serial number. I had ten mags and would load them and empty them in about fifteen minutes. So much fun...

If you head straight over those mountains behind me, there's the South China Sea. NVA and VC R&R up there. Cav would run a sweep up there every few months. I'm standing on Hwy 1 about 20 klicks S/O Nha Trang. Not so fun. We had the Grease Gun as a truck gun for a while. For serious business I had a full automatic H&R M14 in the cab. You guys remember the attachment points on the dash for two weapons? Kept them covered in rags at muzzle and action until needed. Lots and lots of magazines. Really glad to get out of there in spring '67.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

Try this one, it's really easy:

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I fired the "grease gun" several times in the army.
Gotta love .45ACP.

Not as good looking as the Thompson, though.......
Our local gun club has an M3 for rental.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

I'm standing on Hwy 1

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I remember the stories you told us, you and I were discussing it too.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyDollar

Not as good looking as the Thompson

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I agree, had an original M1 for some time and a 1928 for twenty two years. Shot it all I could...

Handled a Tommy gun, felt ill-balanced and awkward to carry. Feeling might improve with more handling but I doubt it. Uzi, FN, AR15 felt well balanced in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Uzi, FN, AR15

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Yes, used and owned them all too. Yes, a Thompson is heavy. Definitely not for everyone. Lots of today's young soldiers would faint to have to carry an FN but, you know as well as I how superb they were.

They should try toting a BAR for a while! *LOL* I would definitely NOT call that light weight!

quote=browningautorifle;507029]you know as well as I how superb they were[/quote]

FN or the MAG. Really tough, accurate, dependable, trustworthy, etc.

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

the MAG

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We didn't get them when the contract for the others came along, too cheap... We tried other things instead. Took until mid '80's to get them on our SARP and then all the old guys were asking, "Where were these when we WANTED to do this stuff?" Minimi too...

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Handled a Tommy gun, felt ill-balanced and awkward to carry. Feeling might improve with more handling but I doubt it. Uzi, FN, AR15 felt well balanced in comparison.

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Very near this place where the photo was taken was a tiny vil. Dong Ba Tien??? My trucks came up on a stopped convoy and we had to get out and wait. Up walks a guy with a Thompson with a 50 rd drum magazine and handle up front, just like a Chicago gangster. I asked him if he'd consider a trade or sell it, no chance. I'd take that over the M3 any day. Talk about looking cool. Some kid was selling cold beer, Olympia, so we sat around and drank a few before continuing. Hands down the best personal gun I saw was up in DaNang. An Australian bodyguard for some Aussie general or something. Strac soldier. Looked like he was in a parade. Had a chrome plated PPSH41 with 71 rd drum. How could you top that?