The Negatives of Collecting Milsurps

Printable View

10-30-2021, 09:29 AM
Aragorn243

The Negatives of Collecting Milsurps

I found a movie that looked good, had some war movie "stars" I recognized so I started to watch it. It was called a Company of Heroes.

Lots of action right off the bat, a rather bloody affair, a bit excessive IMHO. I'm really not paying that close attention to the rifles at first but there is a sniper and he's carrying something very weird with a weirder scope on it. This catches my attention and I go into ID mode. Appears to be a modified SVT-40 with a cheap 22 rimfire scope and mount on it. So now I'm irritated and start paying attention to the rifles. For the record, this is supposed to be a US infantry outfit in the Ardennes in December of 44 at the start of the battle of the Bulge. They are carrying British No 4 rifles and I swear I saw one with a No III but it was so fast I wasn't sure.

Back to the sniper rifle. He touches the scope with the front of his helmet and the scope moved about half an inch. Did this twice. He then is operating the bolt after each shot. That was it, I turned it off.

Seems I can no longer enjoy mindless military violence.
10-30-2021, 10:25 AM
CINDERS

I just enjoy watching all the mistakes and inaccuracies the directors and pros get wrong, like saving private Ryan whilst a good movie the Tiger was anything but.
Along with the so called Hathcock shot of the German sniper, the thing with Carlo's shot in VN it was real and actually happened if you know the story behind his shot then you'll know that the VC sniper was a cunning dude and almost had the drop on Carlos even if he did put a hole in his spotters canteen!

Along with the Seige of Jacksonoville the sniper rifle with just a single post and a single shot from the bren as a sniper weapon, bayonets that the blade wobbles like rubber as they run but I do know that they try to portray actual events thing is they can only get so much realism into a film, but I still enjoy them.

I've been watching a few Russian movies on WWII their scripts are almost like a real war I for one would not want to be a stunt man on their sets as they do have rather large explosions and not CGI'ed either but I hear what your saying Aragorn.
10-30-2021, 10:34 AM
Aragorn243

I don't mind the tanks so much. After all, it's a tank and not many survived and those that did are mostly in museums so they don't bother me so much. But the rifles I really notice anymore.

I did watch a good movie that had a couple of things that I wondered about but it was still good. This one was called "The Forgotten Battle" and was in a mix of English, German and Dutch.

The one thing that stood out other than the awesome British paratrooper helmets which I had to buy a repro after seeing the film was that this British paratrooper ended up separated from his unit and other members of his squad and wound up with a Canadian unit. They fit him up in a new uniform, not sure what was wrong with the one he was in other than being wet but they put him in a Canadian uniform and swapped his No 4 for an MK III. Seemed unusual that they did that rather than send him along to the British but supposedly the Canadians were the only ones in this location. This particular movie wasn't super accurate but it wasn't blatantly bad either and I enjoyed it.
10-30-2021, 11:11 AM
Bob Womack

When you figure out it is a rubber gun by the closed stacking swivel.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...napimage-1.jpg

Now, get off my lawn.

Bob
10-30-2021, 01:46 PM
Singer B

I loved watching John Wayne's Winchesters bend when he would hit people with them. The most amazing part was how accurate they were after all of that bending!! ;)
10-30-2021, 06:25 PM
Flying10uk

I tend to prefer the older war films some of which were made in the war or not long after the end of WW2. Some of the more recent war films are ok but many don't seem to "cut the mustard" when compared to the older films.
10-30-2021, 08:11 PM
Bob Womack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singer B

I loved watching John Wayne's Winchesters bend when he would hit people with them. The most amazing part was how accurate they were after all of that bending!! ;)

He favored the M1892, and collected several to use on set. As it turned out, they were great rifles to load blanks for because they used pistol caliber rounds. Her preferred the carbine version. I inherited from my father an M1892 sporting model with a factory upgrade octagonal barrel.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...modelvsm-1.jpg

More HERE.

Bob
10-30-2021, 09:19 PM
ssgross

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

When you figure out it is a rubber gun by the closed stacking swivel.

I doubt you could get a wrench in the gas plug either.
10-31-2021, 11:59 AM
CINDERS

Lets not forget the extended cylinder capacity of those westerns revolvers when after a half a movies shooting rampage it is decided by our hero cowboy to put another 6 rounds in there and carry on again for the other half of the movie. :lol:
11-02-2021, 04:43 PM
Mk VII

We are going to be seeing a lot more plastic guns in the movies, if a certain trending news item is any guide.
11-02-2021, 06:23 PM
HOOKED ON HISTORY

It's worse when it is a documentary and the Germans are all carrying No 4 Mk1 rifles. Makes you wonder who the technical advisor was.
11-03-2021, 07:22 PM
Flying10uk

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

It's worse when it is a documentary and the Germans are all carrying No 4 Mk1 rifles.

Perhaps the directors didn't want to risk upsetting anyone by allowing the "Germans" to carry K98's with German/Nazi markings.
11-05-2021, 01:04 AM
Surpmil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

When you figure out it is a rubber gun by the closed stacking swivel.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...napimage-1.jpg

Now, get off my lawn.

Bob

Not a bad idea since wasn't another actor killed the other day when live ammo somehow got loaded into a weapon on set?
11-05-2021, 04:37 AM
CINDERS

The conspiracy theories have started apparently the police have started the investigation by saying the round may have been planted, we will let it develop, I still remember Brandon Lee being shot by a prop gun.
You'd think with all the replica fire arms the world they'd use them but I guess you don't get the wow factor in the movie if the action does not cycle, or the belt does not move on the MG because they are using a LPG gun.
11-05-2021, 08:42 AM
Bob Womack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surpmil

Not a bad idea since wasn't another actor killed the other day when live ammo somehow got loaded into a weapon on set?

I don't question the idea at all. I was answering the OP's idea that it is a by-product of collecting that you can tell it isn't right at a glance.

Bob
11-05-2021, 08:44 AM
ssgross

Quote:

Originally Posted by CINDERS

by saying the round may have been planted

I read a report that some of the crew were doing live-fire for fun elsewhere on the ranch with the prop guns. With such lax standards...and the prior safety violations of the armorer (fired from other sets), I suppose it could be possible that left-over live ammunition was put back in whichever box they saw first when putting things away for the day. I think
Gross, even criminal, negligence is simplest most evident reason given what we've seen so far.
Also, from what I read of the SOP for those sets, when an actor is finally handed a firearm they are supposed to perform the final check. There are supposed to be 3 different people, beginning with the armorer ending with the actor, who check the weapon in succession, and it's not supposed to lay out in the open in between. Hell, even in USMC coming off the firing line...I would clear my weapon and make sure it was safe...the RSO on the line would do it next...shoving a cleaning rod in from the muzzle. Then before leaving the range grounds for the day an NCO would clear again. Been a long time since I've heard of a negligent discharge off the firing line.
11-07-2021, 11:08 PM
Surpmil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I don't question the idea at all. I was answering the OP's idea that it is a by-product of collecting that you can tell it isn't right at a glance.

Bob

Roger, it was just a tangential thought on my part. ;)
11-09-2021, 03:37 PM
LTPayton88

This has been going on since the beginning of cinema I guess. I was watching the 1915 silent film "Birth of a Nation" a while back and in the civil war battles that were depicted the Confederate and Union troops were using M1873 Springfield Trapdoor rifles. I I also notice it in video games now too. I was playing Call of Duty Black ops one day and the plot line of the game is from about 1961 to 1968 and here I am running through the jungle not with my M16 or AK 47 but an AK 74 from the future.
11-09-2021, 03:55 PM
Mk VII

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

It's worse when it is a documentary and the Germans are all carrying No 4 Mk1 rifles. Makes you wonder who the technical advisor was.

Sometimes we forget that the technical advisor is just that - he can only 'advise' and if the director decides he is not going to do it that way then his will prevails. Sometimes it's money, sometime a clash of egos and a desire to show who's the boss - such clashes are common on movie production.