Attachment 121561
I have a chance to purchase this rifle but know nothing about them.
This is a pic of the barrel markings (best I have).
Any info will be appreciated.
Thanks
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Attachment 121561
I have a chance to purchase this rifle but know nothing about them.
This is a pic of the barrel markings (best I have).
Any info will be appreciated.
Thanks
It's a 1925 Tula made rifle. It was originally a M91 Dragoon rifle but was rebuilt into a M91/30 rifle by the Soviets either shortly before WW2 or in the post war period. These are refered to as Ex-Dragoon's by Mosin collectors and are less common than wartime produced examples.
A nice hex receiver, but a bill board import mark on its side rather than the barrel. . Many collectors prefer the hex. I love HEX rifles. It has nice clear, deeply stamped crest--markings are a nice CCCP receiver.
You can subdue the import mark. Look for lined out serial numbers or miss matched serial numbers. Most important is that the bolt number matches. Serial number is 17575. The blue black Mosin blue is nice on what I can see in that one photo. I dislike line outs or mismatched numbers. You may see a lined out serial number than the correct serial number restamped. This is what is called a force matched rifle. Check for matching serial numbers on the receiver, bolt, floor plate, buttplate. Check the bore for a counter bore; does rifling extend to the muzzle. Check to see if the stock was refinished- bad news. It is best if it has the original finish on the stock. Make sure you got a cleaning rod with it.
Check to see it the bolt that is matching opens smooth and closes down- no round in chamber.
So matching, original non refinished stock, cleaning rod present, a hex , and a CCCP crest -- good bore no counter bore, maybe a sling and or bayonet. It is a steal at $300, more likely a $425 rifle if all stars aline on your planet. A WINNER:ugh::confused:
If it has the above correct attribute and is around $300, run and buy the sucker. hex' s are more desirable and the CCCP crest 1925 is NICE. If at $550, thats too high, but most nice rifles are around $400 for a hex at WI gun shows. What I see is the junk that is miss matched or stock is cracked or refinished and the seller of the dog wants $300 or more:yikes::dunno:
---------- Post added at 06:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------
see NRA Blog | The Mosin-Nagant: Russia’s Other Legendary Service Rifle
https://john1911.com/mosin-nagant-91-30-ex-dragoon/
I put many reference site links in this SRF post:
New online resourse for Mosin information - Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.org
I have looked at it and all numbers seem to match same fount anyway. Butt plate, floorplate, bolt and barrel. No line outs..
Bolt has SC on extractor and a star on the top of the bolt pull...
The bore is -counter bored-
Stock is pretty decent -varnished & several markings. really don't know what to compare stock finish to??
Comes with a sling, cleaning kit, cleaning rod, oiler, & ammo pouch --- no bayo
Price is up in the air right now - but maybe around &300 - I hope-- will know buy tomorrow evening final $$$s
thanks again
Markings https://www.m9130.info/markings-and-proofmarks
Stock color and finish https://www.m9130.info/stocks-handguards
If you can snag it at 300 do it and run fast :move eek::eek::madsmile:
It's probably what collectors call "matching after refurbishment" Sometimes the font's on renumbered parts can be similar and hard to recognize without experience. The rifle has several post war Soviet arsenal rebuild stamps visible in the picture and its been rebuilt at least once since it 's in M91/30 configuation so it's unlikely its got any original parts left on it. That said 300 is a excellent price for a Ex-Dragoon M91/30 and you should jump on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy S
An Izzy completed auction with nice pictures of arsenal rebuild stock finish
https://www.gunauction.com/buy/pictures.cfm?i=14473404
300? In today's market? Sounds fair to me.
Got these today - any help??
The fonts of the numbers on the buttplate, bolt and magazine base all match each other but they don't match the font used on the barrel serial number as would be the case if the rifle was factory original. This is extremely common with Mosin's that went through the Soviets post war refurbishment program. These rifles were stripped down and inspected and barrelled actions with unservicable bores were scrapped. All parts were also inspected for serviceability and unservicable parts were also scrapped. The rifles were then reassembled using a combination of new parts and serviceable parts from other rifles. No attempt was made to put original parts and stocks back on, they just grabbed the next one in the bin. After reassembly those parts with preexisting numbers had them lined out or ground off and were restamped to the same number already on the barrel. This is extremely common with Mosin's exported from former Soviet storage locations and most Soviet Mosin's in the U.S. follow this pattern. There are a small number of original factory matching examples called "light refurbs" that just got a fresh coat of lacquer on the stocks but they are rather rare and usually have dates between 1942-1944.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy S
Is this a price killer?? Undesirable?? Can you help with an expected price to pay (to be safe and not be trounced$$) for this rifle also Like I said the bore has been counter bored (2" or less) but rest is nice referb with seeing under the wood.Quote:
Originally Posted by SSG_Lord
I really do appreciate this help.
I would not consider that information a price killer. Currently, even mismatched, round receiver, red shellacked stocks, substandard 1941-43 Izhvesk 91/30s are fetching $300+. A couple of online retailers are listing them at $500-800. Most WW2 guns from any of the participants, and especially the winning nations, have been refurbished in some manner. I look at a refurb as just another "variant" that has a story to tell. If you like the gun and you are comfortable with the price, I would buy it. I would personally buy it just because the oldest one I have is an actual 1930 (39,xxx) and I would love to add a dragoon to the collection since I don't have one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy S
What SSGLORD said, but you have a Tula rifle and with what I can see a Tula star marked bolt and cocking knob. Nice! The bands may also have stars which indicates Tula parts. It is possible they could have a triangle which would be Izzy bands that are easy to switch out back to Tula. It is considered arsenal rebuilt matching. The only negative is the counterbore which is good for a shooter- a cheep Russian way to restore a barrel, but not what most collectors desire- most do not shoot the best examples. Still the finish looks good and it's a nice rifle for $250-300 at todays market. Due to the counter bore I would not pay $400. I do not shoot mine- rack queens and no counterbores. I hate counterbores. However, ExDragoons are getting hard to find at shows. Most any sort of Hex commands a higher value and sell fast if any are found at shows. Like Singer B said most dealers would put about $450-500 on that rifle a WI gun show. Back in the day we got nice stuff like that for $100. But those days are gone. Pick it up, then search out a intact M91 Mosin. They both are fun to shoot. It is a nice rifle for shooting & looks. Ask yourself what is the goal... It is a low price on a nice specimen. Is it the best example - no. But it is a pretty nice example-better than most. But do you want a safe queen at $600?
:Gentleman,
Thanks for all your info & help & suggestions - I an still reading and scanning the info. I really like these rifles and hope to post later some of the info I can collect from this rifle.
:)Well I pulled the lanyard, and won the auction, sorry to say I did pay up for the rifle but I liked the looks and some of it's factors and the info you gents commented on. Ir probably has a refurbished stock but better then most I have seen lately.
I have a bunch of pics the seller posted but will do more research when it arrives.
Paid $450 +$35 to ship and he's sending to my 03FFL here at home.:wave:
[ATTACH]Attachment 121599[/ATTACH]
I also am interested in accessories - 1st off a Bayonet - are there different/proper ones for this model - 1925 xDragoon 91/30 = is that correct?
thanks again
A Tula star marked bayonet would be nice. Any 91/30 will fit. But it may need fitting to that rifle. Some are too tight.
Bayonet wons the best way to get a perfect fit... - YouTube
mosin nagant 91/30 bayonet fix - YouTube
I use a wood dowel with sand paper glued around the circumference to sand down the interior of the bayonet.
Congrates on the win, sometimes when a rifle speaks to you it just has to be bought. I really don't think you overpaid by much if at all, 1920's era ex Dragoons get harder to find the closer to 1920 you are and they aren't making them anymore anyways. Any M91/30 bayonet will be fine for it, be aware that you may need to tweak the socket jaws a bit to make it easier to remove. These bayonets were meant to always be mounted on the rifle unless the soldier was in a truck or train for transport so they are much tighter than most rifle bayonets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy S
I see mosin type bayonets on epay - some have a spring type "latch" mechanism?? and others don't. I'm assuming the latter (no latch) being correct type? Also as 77 USMC mentioned a Tula "STAR" marked would be good. I heard that Tula also used a "hammer" mark - is that true?? Were bayonets serialized to rifles - originally???Quote:
Originally Posted by SSG_Lord
Thanks again for all the help
Bayonets were serialized to the rifles during the Imperial Russian era. The Soviets discontinued the practice in the 1930's and resumed it at the end of WW2. Most Soviet Mosin's you see today with a"matching bayonet" got it during the post war refurbishment program I mentioned earlier. The hammer stamp is Tula's stamp during the Imperial era, it was replaced by the star after the Russian Revolution. The bayonet you want for your M91/30 is the one with the spring assisted latch, the other type is for the earlier M91 Mosin and uses a rotating locking collar to secure it.
Great Info & thank you for the help :thup::super:Quote:
Originally Posted by SSG_Lord
After I receive the rifle I'll get some info (pics) of it's markings and bother you guys some more later.