Question about No4 SKN action

"A friend" currently has a skeletonized No4 rifle, done by MOD with a SKN serial number complete with skeletonized barrel of about 12 inches. The question is on the legality of the item in the United States.

There is a full length cut through the chamber and receiver ring about 1/4 inches in height. The barrel itself also has had the bore blocked during conversion. Some people have clamed that it is a short barreled rifle, and therefore subject to ATF rules.

What would be the best way to resolve this?

Here is a quick representation of the work, with the cut extending fully across the reciever ring.

Attachment 121781

I imported a quantity of them in the late 1990's. They are considered a firearm because the body hasn't been torch cut in three places which is ATF demil specification. My advice is to rebarrel it with a scrap 16" barrel. That's what I did at the time with no worries. I also gave the guys who bought them the original barrels.

I asked ATF this very question. Was thinking about making one.
They said they’d have to see the actual rifle in question to make a ruling.

So it’s possible they’d rule a cutaway sufficiently deactivated to not be a firearm anymore. I wouldn’t hold you breath…but I guess there’s a chance.

Unfortunately you are asking for common sense to be used, something that disappeared many years ago on this side of the pond and I suspect on your side as well. Anyone who things that these little instructional pieces should be treated as viable firearms once they have actually seen what has been done to them has obviously lost the plot as they are totally incapable of discharging anything apart from a loud click when demonstrating how the Enfield action works....

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Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Unfortunately you are asking for common sense to be used, something that disappeared many years ago on this side of the pond and I suspect on your side as well. Anyone who things that these little instructional pieces should be treated as viable firearms once they have actually seen what has been done to them has obviously lost the plot as they are totally incapable of discharging anything apart from a loud click when demonstrating how the Enfield action works....

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Do you recall a post many years ago from PL where he was called as an expert witness in a court case involving an SKN ?

They 'won' the case but it was ruled that it did not set a precedent.
When I was buying mine I was a little worried but PL said if it came to the worst, he'd happily act for me as an expert witness.

Mine was one of the many 100s found when the AJP building was 'broken into' (years after closing) by 'urban explorers', and sold by ScotArms Auction house.
The RFD at ScotArms checked their status with Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire and Lincolnshire Police and they all said they considered them as 'non-firearms'.

I did hear some years back that Yorkshire Constabulary (is it a single force?) had an "issue" with SKN actions and cutaways in general.

My own force area is fine with them, the caveat I was given when I sought advice on building a collection of Cutaway instructional actions was always buy from an RFD and carry out your own due diligence checks that no licenced and controlled parts are left in a live and pressure baring condition.

All very sensible really....

Unfortunately the standards for cutaway in the US and England are quite different. What "the owner" may end up doing is making up a 16 inch barrel to place on this, or adding an extension. The extension if done right with a No4 barrel would be a decent way to go. Maybe.

I'd just replace the barrel. There are plenty of shot out No.4 barrels around. You can mill out the chamber area as original and touch it up with red paint. That's what I did at the time and they turned out great. I kept one tagged to the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders. You may remember the Australian SMLE SKN's for sale at John Jovino in the late 80's, early 90's. They were also set up with 16" barrels before resale.

Compare it to a L59 DP #4 if the cuts are the same its a non gun
Carl

I had just received a large amount of theses a few years ago. At one time they were imported as sbr's. Now after I went thru ATF with action ring being cut an other major stress point being cut. They agreed with me that there is way to much involved to place back into actual firing order. Was suggested that a plug be welded into chamber. As the heat of a good weld will also damage the receiver ring.

If you really want to know what to do with it other than replacing the barrel with a 16" one which was the path of least resistance for me at the time, contact BATF&E Firearms Technology Branch. They'll want you to send photographs or possibly even send it to Martinsburg, WV for evaluation. I imported a legit, cutaway Enfield No.2Mk.1 revolver a few years ago and it had to be shipped from my broker in Atlanta upon import from the UK directly to Martinsburg, WV so they could make a determination on it. They determined it was OK and forwarded it back to me for in processing but it still had to be run through the proper transfer process, exactly the same as a live firearm. That being said, a live, unaltered No.2Mk.1 revolver is NOT importable because it doesn't have a hammer block safety. I'm guessing that because the historical significance and fact that the cutaway was altered beyond shooting capability must have been the reason they approved it. A word of advice from experience. You can ask all the local BATF&E compliance inspectors you want and get a different answer from each and every one of them. The only folks to deal with on an issue like this should you so desire is Firearms Technology Branch.

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Originally Posted by mmppres

I had just received a large amount of theses a few years ago. At one time they were imported as sbr's. Now after I went thru ATF with action ring being cut an other major stress point being cut. They agreed with me that there is way to much involved to place back into actual firing order. Was suggested that a plug be welded into chamber. As the heat of a good weld will also damage the receiver ring.

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Interesting thread. Do you have your correspondence and the decision documented? Because if yes, this would apply to other demilled rifles that are not demilled per published ATF standard (weld cut through receiver removing material, etc, etc). You're basically saying that in this case ATF looked at the SKN action and said that, after a plug is welded into the barrel, the object is too far gone to be considered a firearm, even though it technically doesn't have a torch cut through the receiver.

waw44 makes a great point. I'd like to see that letter too mmppres. BATF&E FTB will provide a letter after evaluation either way. In the case of big stuff like mortars, there's a much more detailed and complicated display method of deactivating other than cutting the tube up but it's apples and oranges compared to small arms. I imported a British 3" mortar for a rare mortar section 1943 Ford Canada Universal, (Bren), Carrier that I also imported for a client in 2016. Yes, both the mortar and the UC required a Form 6 import permit as implements of war before I could bring them in.

The problem with instructional models in UK is their purpose - to instruct. The Police do not accept the need for anyone to be instructed in the mechanisms of firearms.

Yes for my purpose I have my correspondence. Like it has been stated each instance has to go thru the tech division. Mine were all brought in as whole pieces. Then they cut barrels off before selling to me or my knowledge.Which had me very upset. I ended up welding barrel stub back on an leaving a gap to show barrel empty as a cut out. Then plug welding chamber. this was then looked at by atf ,
[IMG]file:///home/mike/Pictures/2019/10/16/IMG_5116.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]file:///home/mike/Pictures/2019/10/16/IMG_5118.JPG[/IMG]

here is first pic Attachment 121997
now second Attachment 121998