Printable View
Hello I am Dave new here I have a few pre WW1 1903 NRA rifles and have been looking for info on these rifles they are hard to find info on Brophy does not have a lot of info on these rifles in his book beyond a basic acknowledgement that they were made I was wondering if anyone else has found any info on these early NRA rifles Thanks Dave
I have one of the earliest ones made in 1909. Since they were sold to civilians prior to 1922, there are no records in SRS ( snapshot in time for military rifles and DCM sales records starting in 1922 ). So, unless you got from the original owner, there is no way to find the history of an individual rifle. I'm not sure if anyone knows the total number sold.
Thank you for your help I have 3 of these rifles 1911,1913 and 1916 I have been told the 2 early rifles are not correct that the nra mark was not applied until after 1915 but they appear original .Could these early rifles have still been in inventory in 1915 and not nra marked until they were sold
Dave, my guess...not likely. The marking is on the trigger guard, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadwooddave
yes they are marked on the guard ahead of the floorplate is your 1909 rifle marked on the guard?
The NRA stamp was used when it was revealed that some buyers had sold their rifles to 3rd parties in violation of the agreement they signed when they purchased the rifle. Supposedly, some rifles already sold were tracked down and thus-stamped.
Yes, that is my understanding. Ive seen ONE in my lifetime...never owned one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadwooddave
There was, of course, the question whether or not the rifle had been stolen. The m1903 was the service rifle at the time and the NRA sales rifle looked just like any other M1903. It's hard to believe that all service rifles looked like my 1909 rifle with 95% finish, but I guess they did.
I saw a sales rifle one time that was as brand new looking and in perfect condition as one could ever reasonably expect. Even for something that was manufactured just yesterday. I'm not sure if it had even been fired by anyone other than the factory.
It was purchased for a song with some other arms because the owner wasn't interested in "that old junk.
Once I had the opportunity to have a look at it in person, I took the steps to private message RTL and put him in touch with the new owner so they could exchange information. Something I had never done before.
I never followed up on any other conversation the two may have had. Hopefully at least some pictures were shared between the two parties for the sake of posterity.
My goal was try and broker some knowledge between the two, particularly with my friend so he could be educated for what he had come across.
It must have worked because the next time I talked to the new owner he did tell me, I just put it away for safe keeping and no I wont take 500 for it, go away get out of here.
And so it goes.... I spotted one in a local shop that was the complete opposite of what has been described above. I tried to work a deal on it but it was pretty rough for what they wanted for it so I passed it up.
Probably should have bought it but I was on a different kick at the time.
They have a shell and flame and NRA lightly struck just in front of the floor-plate but behind the front guard screw if I remember correctly.
My 1909 rifle is not marked with the NRA and bomb shell.
I found a bunch of info on these at the National Archives.
Basically back pre WWI, shooting was actually a really popular sport. There were shooting competiions everywhere and nearly every town had one or several shooting clubs that were backed and controlled by the National Rifle Association. Back when the NRA was actually about furthering shooting and not politics like they are now.
Since shooting was actually considered a huge sport at that time, all they had to do was I believe have a minimum number of members (I think 10), fill out paperwork as a shooting club to the NRA, and they could purchase these rifles thru the club to be used in shooting competitions.
The rifles were technically the property of the shooting club, and not the individual. That was the way they could go around the laws of the time. Though you also could buy one if you were a lifetime member of the NRA.
The rifle sales policies changed about 1919 on this and individuals could now buy them direct, without being a member of a NRA club or lifetime member. The 1919 National Matches were the first M1903's sold directly to civilians who competed in the 1919 NM's.
I live near Camp Perry and these early NRA sales or club rifles pop up a lot in this area. I think just because I'm by Perry. But I see them a lot.
They actually sold a pretty good amount of these rifles pre WWI. I think a lot are still undiscovered in older guys closets and they don't know what they have.
Funny I was at NARA yesterday digitizing some files on these...
Couple of things to add...
There are pre-WWI NRA Sales records in the SRS. But they are few and far between.
The program was first authorized by Congress in 1905. But took a bit to get implemented.
The rifles were not always shipped directly out of Springfield Armory or Rock Island Arsenal. Each arsenal was responsible for a set of territories or states. The club would file paperwork through the NRA, attain status as "good standing." Then your club could purchase arms, ammunition, and even 1910 infantry equipment through the State's Adjutant General. The designated arsenal would then ship what was purchased. The arms were subject to inspection although through the office of the Chief of Ordnance.
The NRA Life member benefit did not come until almost the program was suspended. Either in 1915 or 1916, I am trying to track down a specific date. Annual members could purchase Krags and Life members could purchase the same articles a club could.
There are few examples of M1911 NRA sales pistols because clubs just didn't buy them nearly as frequently as rifles. That came as a bit of a shock to me personally.
Lastly, in 1915 states bordering Mexico were denied sales due to the border crisis.
The 1919 National Match sales were slightly different than sales to rifle clubs or educational institutions. National Match rifles weren't authorized to sale to the public until a few years later. At that time you had to be a competitor for that sale to be authorized. (It didn't say it specifically but I imagine you had to be registered or on some sort of roster with that year's match).