What was the early Imperial Russian 1891 Mosin Nagant sling

Printable View

12-21-2021, 01:52 PM
1903Collector

What was the early Imperial Russian 1891 Mosin Nagant sling

What was the early Imperial Russian 1891 Mosin Nagant sling that fit to the early sling swivels?
12-21-2021, 08:02 PM
browningautorifle

1 Attachment(s)

Is this the sling setup you speak of? Also the link so you can see for a while.

Russian Model 1891 Mosin-Nagant Bolt Action Rifle
12-21-2021, 08:44 PM
SSG_Lord

3 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1903Collector

What was the early Imperial Russian 1891 Mosin Nagant sling that fit to the early sling swivels?

If your talking about the pre 1908 upgrade sling set up with the magazine mounted rear sling mount and the front sling mount on the front barrel band then there are 3 types. The earliest type was canvas or leather and was sewn onto the sling loops, because you couldn't remove the sling without cutting it off few survive today outside of museums in Russia. The second type is leather with a hook on one end and a leather buckle similair to Austro-Hungarian M1895 slings, it is also extremely rare. The third is a leather sling with a button loop on one end and a square buckle on the other, many of these survived in Finland and can be found from time to time although not common. They are similar in design to the brown and green leather Mosin slings Finland used later on. Full disclosure: These pictures are from Vic Thomas's Mosinnagant.net site which is currently shut down.
12-21-2021, 11:18 PM
1903Collector

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSG_Lord

If your talking about the pre 1908 upgrade sling set up with the magazine mounted rear sling mount and the front sling mount on the front barrel band then there are 3 types. The earliest type was canvas or leather and was sewn onto the sling loops, because you couldn't remove the sling without cutting it off few survive today outside of museums in Russia. The second type is leather with a hook on one end and a leather buckle similair to Austro-Hungarian M1895 slings, it is also extremely rare. The third is a leather sling with a button loop on one end and a square buckle on the other, many of these survived in Finland and can be found from time to time although not common. They are similar in design to the brown and green leather Mosin slings Finland used later on. Full disclosure: These pictures are from Vic Thomas's Mosinnagant.net site which is currently shut down.

Thanks for the GREAT info. My rifle is a 1905 and has the kinda rhomboid shaped sling swivels that fed thru the brass plates in the slots located in the butt and upper handguard (did I describe that adaquately?) I had considered that the bottom loop may be sewn and attached only by removing the swivel and slipping it thru the loop. Jim sent me an image showing that exact configuration. Sarco makes a 91/30 leather sling with leather collars at the ends. If the image he sent is in fact an Imperial Sling the Sarco sling with the collars removed may be close enough, or even what was used (repro, of course)!
12-22-2021, 04:27 AM
SSG_Lord

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1903Collector

Thanks for the GREAT info. My rifle is a 1905 and has the kinda rhomboid shaped sling swivels that fed thru the brass plates in the slots located in the butt and upper handguard (did I describe that adaquately?) I had considered that the bottom loop may be sewn and attached only by removing the swivel and slipping it thru the loop. Jim sent me an image showing that exact configuration. Sarco makes a 91/30 leather sling with leather collars at the ends. If the image he sent is in fact an Imperial Sling the Sarco sling with the collars removed may be close enough, or even what was used (repro, of course)!

It sounds like you have a Russian M91 that was aquired and reworked by Finland. If the picture in the post above from Browningautorifle looks like yours then thats what you have. If that's the case then you need a Finnish used sling, they come in black leather, green leather and canvas. If you search on Ebay for Finnish Mosin sling you'll see examples of all three.
12-22-2021, 04:45 AM
Gil Boyd

1 Attachment(s)

Good chance to try the images. Here's a Finnish soldier with an example of the rifle sling in colour hope it helps.
12-22-2021, 06:59 AM
SSG_Lord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Good chance to try the images. Here's a Finnish soldier with an example of the rifle sling in colour hope it helps.

That sling is actually a captured Russian M91/30 sling but they are often seen on Finnish 91's.Thats a cool picture, not one I've seen before. Edit: The M91/30 sling pictured will only work with dog collars. If your rifle has Finnish style sling hangers those slings are to wide to fit properly and can cause the sling to tear over time. Rifles with sling hangers should use the previously mentioned Finnish leather or canvas slings as they are the correct width to fit the sling hangers.
12-23-2021, 07:59 PM
1903Collector

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSG_Lord

It sounds like you have a Russian M91 that was aquired and reworked by Finland. If the picture in the post above from Browningautorifle looks like yours then thats what you have. If that's the case then you need a Finnish used sling, they come in black leather, green leather and canvas. If you search on Ebay for Finnish Mosin sling you'll see examples of all three.

Yes, mine is an SA marked Winter War or Continuation War capture. The crown was counterbored too (a but too deep for my tastes!) However I want it in WWI configuration for my WWI display.
Are you saying that the wire sling swivels are NOT the early Imperial Russia configuration, but rather Finn upgrades? If so...BUMMER, as I passed on others with cleaning rod, bay and a NOT cracked stock just because of the sling swivels!!! :-(
Clearly I have musch to learn about the Mosin Nagant, M91 or later!

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSG_Lord

It sounds like you have a Russian M91 that was aquired and reworked by Finland. If the picture in the post above from Browningautorifle looks like yours then thats what you have. If that's the case then you need a Finnish used sling, they come in black leather, green leather and canvas. If you search on Ebay for Finnish Mosin sling you'll see examples of all three.

p.s., Ive got one left over when I double ordered slings for my M39. Its Finn...I think! Its leather and has got an unusual buckle with a recessed center bar (thats the best way I can describe it). I guess I COULD place this in my early WWII Finn collection since I dont have an M28 yet, but that means I need to acquire yet another M91! :-P

---------- Post added at 06:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Good chance to try the images. Here's a Finnish soldier with an example of the rifle sling in colour hope it helps.

at is a good clear pic!
but that rifle has no sling swivels and the sling has the collars that feed thru the stock slots.
12-23-2021, 08:36 PM
SSG_Lord

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1903Collector

Are you saying that the wire sling swivels are NOT the early Imperial Russia configuration, but rather Finn upgrades?

That's correct, the sling swivels are a Finnish upgrade that was never used by the Imperial Russian Army in WW1. They used the standard dog collar sling arrangment or one of the earlier sling set ups as not all M91's in Russia had received the 1908 upgrades prior to the start of WW1. Finding a WW1 correct M91 will be tricky, most M91's in the US were imported from countries like Finland, Romania and Spain who used them after WW1 into WW2 and carried out their own upgrades and modifications to them along the way. You can find Finnish marked M91's that are otherwise correct with a little looking, a big percentage of the M91's in the U.S. came here by way of Finland and not all were upgraded. It's also possible to find Spanish or "Balkan" imports still in near WW1 configuration but both saw hard use so less examples exist.
12-23-2021, 11:59 PM
browningautorifle

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1903Collector

What was the early Imperial Russian 1891 Mosin Nagant sling that fit to the early sling swivels?

So, now I wonder what rifle you have? How 'bout a pic?
12-24-2021, 12:32 AM
1903Collector

Quote:

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

So, now I wonder what rifle you have? How 'bout a pic?

Jim, as SSG Lord pointed out mine is a Finn captured 1905 Russian M91. I just dug thru my storage and found my Mosin Nagant rifle book by T.W. Lapin and aaarrrggghhhhhh! I should have researched better before bidding on the rifle. No pics because it is still enroute! It is not in an early Russian configuration but a 1905 M91 in post-1940 Finn (Winter War or Continuation War!) Which is OK, as I have very good memories and a love and a bit of knowledge of Finland. Ive made countless long trips to many parts of Finland. I know Helsinki better than I know Dallas! I worked for Nokia for 14 years.

Basically, I bought the wrong rifle for what I was looking for. Once again, LESSONS LEARNED...again...again! So, the bayonet I seek is the right one, and the Sarco repro sling will work in either configuration (with the collars thru the stock slots, or collars removed and mounted to the magazine swivel (if I can find one) and the front cap swivel (again, if I can find one!)), and even with the Finn sling swivels, BUT it doesnt fit in the place in the WWI section of my collection!

I may have mentioned before that I am loaning the collection to a local veterans museum for an indefinite period. That is the reason I have been so active on a wide variety of 20th century firearms lately...I am completing the collection as far as I can and the budget allows. I just acquired a Steyr M95 long rifle and a Lebel 1886 from RTI and the M91 out of GB was, I thought, the last addition( thought I still need a WWI Turkish Mauser!)
I think Ill have to refurb this rifle, sell it, and find the one closer to what I am looking for. Oddly enough, after scanning the book Ive had for years I identified the mystery sling I have that I THOUGHT was Finnish, but never sure. It is a Finnish M28 sling...so now do I need to acquire an M28? Jeeze this collecting business just never ends does it?!?!?!?!?!

---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSG_Lord

That's correct, the sling swivels are a Finnish upgrade that was never used by the Imperial Russian Army in WW1. They used the standard dog collar sling arrangment or one of the earlier sling set ups as not all M91's in Russia had received the 1908 upgrades prior to the start of WW1. Finding a WW1 correct M91 will be tricky, most M91's in the US were imported from countries like Finland, Romania and Spain who used them after WW1 into WW2 and carried out their own upgrades and modifications to them along the way. You can find Finnish marked M91's that are otherwise correct with a little looking, a big percentage of the M91's in the U.S. came here by way of Finland and not all were upgraded. It's also possible to find Spanish or "Balkan" imports still in near WW1 configuration but both saw hard use so less examples exist.

Your help is most gracious and VERY welcome! Thanks!
12-24-2021, 10:48 AM
browningautorifle

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1903Collector

Jim, as SSG Lord pointed out mine is a Finn captured 1905 Russian M91.

I see...