Lend Lease Garands - What is the history/process of their arrival back to the States?

Hello,

I recently picked up a Lend-Lease M1 Garand as part of my burgeoning collection, and it was my original understanding that these rifles were "bench-mark rifles" in the sense that they are the closest you can get to receiving an all original, undocumented M1 Garand due to their time in the U.K.

Between the '50s and '80s, they eventually made their way back to the United States, and they were initially frowned upon for their ugly paint and import markings.

When I received my Garand, I had it analyzed by a friend who told me that many of the Lend-Lease Garands that came back to the U.S in crates and were "assembly-lined" where they were sanded down, parts removed and inspected, paint worn away, etc. Once that was all done, they were quickly sold off.

He believed mine was legitimate and told me not to worry, but are Lend-Lease Garands not as "authentic" as I originally understood. Were many of them re-assembled and parts possibly interchanged upon arrival to the U.S?

Please let me know if I'm wrong, as this is the general understanding that I have of these rifles. I'm eager to learn more.

Thank you to any and all who reply!

Here is a link to the history of the Civilian Marksmanship Program. They and their predecessor organization have been bringing back lend/lease Garands for a very, very long time.
https://thecmp.org/about/
As far as conditions go, and what to expect, things vary widely. Never fear, CMP has detailed condition descriptions and grading criteria here.
https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/

These rifles weren't just maintained when brought back to the US, there would have been any number of refurbishments, either by US govt abroad, or by the country they were lent to.

The early LL rifles you refer to were brought back from UK and since they were essentially unused they needed nothing. The lower stock groups were in some cases switched between but they weren't as mixed up as you've been lead to believe. Mine was all original except the conjecture that the stock group had a small ordnance wheel instead of large. Later LL rifles had seen hard use and as stated were completely overhauled.

Most advanced collectors want rifles from the first batch of around 38,000 rifles, these have the BNP proofs at the rear of the barrel where the date is stamped. There is also a letter near this stamp which will indicate the year of import. example: 1950 has A with the letter I omitted, 1958 is J this ends in 1963 with O. Besides the rear proofs on the barrel, there is also a stamp on the receiver ring and on the right bolt lug which is distorted from usage. The red paint is on the front hand guard. Collectors often use a common lead paint test kit to find out if the red paint has been faked to increase value.

I have enclosed photos of my lend lease rifleAttachment 122968Attachment 122967Attachment 122966Attachment 122965

RCS is right on the money. Many collectors call any M1 with British Proofs "Lend Lease" -- they are not. In my considered opinion, only the first lot imported by Interarmco can be guaranteed as rifles supplied to England under the Lend Lease Act of March 1941 and suspended about April 1942. They are proofed under the op rod. Later rifles proofed on top of the barrel MAY be LL but usually are not, like the IHCs so marked. That just means they went through the Interarms facility in England as part of the export process. Most were acquired elsewhere in the world.

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Originally Posted by bob seijas

In my considered opinion, only the first lot imported by Interarmco can be guaranteed as rifles supplied to England under the Lend Lease Act of March 1941 and suspended about April 1942. They are proofed under the op rod.

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Right, there IS a serial range involved. There were so many countries supplied through the decades, but those that went to UK during the beginning are the ones meant when we speak of LL...not Greek, Danish, Honduras, and so on...

M1s were even sent out in the 80s...

Here is a reply to a mans FOIA request on his CMP.

Is there a way to determine where your M1 may have returned home from? My M1 is one of the last ones made (SA 5,96x,xxx) and I'm pretty sure it went somewhere because it has a "MR" marked refurbishment stock and the metal finish is excellent indicating it went through a military refurbishment at some time. While I am pretty sure it never saw any actual armed conflict, I would still love to know where she went during her 65 years of existence. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Singer B

Is there a way to determine where your M1 may have returned home from

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Maybe ask CMP? Otherwise it would be collected info from someone that reads this. Some of us do keep records...

You can also find the London Proof on M1 rifles before, within and after the original group of 38,000 Lend Lease rifle serial number range.

Like the BNP these London Proofs can be located in the rear of the barrel near the date or between the gas cylinder rings on the barrel

My photo shows an excellent condition S-A 8-40 barrel with London proofs on a mid 1940 Springfield rifle. Also received a data sheet from a friend at GCA showing a direct conversion serial number 7860 with a S-A 8-40 dated barrel also with London proofs. Both these rifles are not Lend Lease riflesAttachment 123003

I'm happy to provide the contact info of the woman who is doing the M1 FOIA requests via DM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Maybe ask CMP? Otherwise it would be collected info from someone that reads this. Some of us do keep records...

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That's a good plan. Since I acquired my M1 from them, they would probably know. Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Maybe ask CMP? Otherwise it would be collected info from someone that reads this. Some of us do keep records...

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Thank you sir, I just sent the request to CMP.

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

I'll try the CMP route first, and if that doesn't work, then I will ask for the FOIA contact. Thank you!

The program called for rebuilt M1s to be sent, including WRA and rebuilt former Gas Traps, with only a small percentage of new SA production (3% IIRC). In practice, it turned out to be easier to just ship new guns from SA and so most LLs were new. A verifiable LL rebuild is scarce.

The problem we have is that it's hard to tell an LL rebuild from a regular rebuild unless it is marked in the barrel date area as IMO Sam Cummings specified on the original lot. Of course, it is much harder to mark there than simply on top of the barrel, but he knew collectors would hate the proofs and wanted them in as inconspicuous location as possible.

Interarms was unwilling to provide any information on the imports, despite what I thought was heavy pressure from my end about 1979. I got a response from John Ring, the Sales Manager saying, "You know as much about the arms business as I know about the stock market." LOL

The key questions we still want to know are:
(a) How many did Interarms import?
(b) Did they get them all in that first lot or were there subsequent buys of Lend Lease M1s?
(c) How many were SA new production?

Our records say we sent 38,001 M1s (unconfirmed lore always said another 50,000 were sent but the ship was torpedoed on the way over). Most were stored unused, but not all of them. Unconfirmed reports say some were issued to airfield guards. There are records that say the Commandos loved them and took 1,000. We assume the rest were warehoused in new condition and these are what Cummings bought. Were there other lots after that first one?

Here are the British Marines using them at the reoccupation of Hong Kong.https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....37&cid=1&stc=1

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....38&cid=1&stc=1

More... First two we've had here before. The third honestly looks like Korea...the last is in the Hochwald Forest in 1945.

I've been following along since my initial captain obvious post. Now I'm confused. I thought lend/lease rifles were issued to many different countries? Are you all saying the program only included Great Britain? And that all the other Garands coming back from other countries were from other programs?

My guess would be that Bob knows all the details, and will chime in with a reference to a past GCA article summarizing all the different ways or programs Garands migrated all over the world. If it hasn't been written yet, such an article should be.

The third I've not seen before, and from the US field jacket and water bottle, it's probably the same as the first two; 41 Cmdo in Korea, which was entirely outfitted with American weapons and equipment as it was operating with the 1st US Marine Divn. The weapons were issued from US ordnance stocks at Camp Mackall, Yokosuka, Japan.

We did provide equipment to others besides Britain, but only the very early stuff was technically "Lend Lease," a program designed to get around US neutrality. After we entered the war, that wasn't a problem anymore and we sent allies "Military Assistance." What we call "Lend Lease" Garands are only those unique rifles in new condition imported by Interarms.

... young arms dealer named Sam Cummings. Because the British government would not sell surplus weaponry to foreign dealers, in 1957 Cummings bought the moribund arms firm of Cogswell & Harrison that owned a large facility in Manchester. Through that firm he was able to purchase surplus M1s. He first imported M1 rifles in 1958 and began to sell them in February 1959 from his company Ye Old Hunter in Virginia. Mail order price was $79.95 for standard and $89.95 for “near-mint.” He also sold some to other dealers, notably Klein’s in Chicago and department stores like Sears, Roebuck and Montgomery Ward. A competitor of Interarmco, Winfield Arms in Los Angeles, also purchased M1s from overseas during the same time period as they advertised them for sale at $97.50. The total number of M1 rifles imported in the late 1950s through early 1960s is unknown.

Aha. go it now. pre war = lend lease, postwar = military assistance.

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