Late War Inland Carbine - from Philippines?

I recently purchased an M1 Carbine from Royal Tiger. It is an Inland serial number 6,908,236 with an Inland barrel dated 2/45. So it is a late war Inland Carbine, likely completed in February/March, 1945. It appears to be all correct as it left the factory. There is no indication that it was re-arsenaled. It does have the Inter-Ordinance import mark on the bottom of the barrel. It is supposedly part of the batch of WWII rifles re-imported from Ethiopia. However, it has some distinctive carving on the stock, indicating that it went from manufacture to the Philippines. It was probably provided by the US Military to Philippino Guerillas during the final push to defeat the Japanese. The carving indicates that it was used in a Southern Province of Luzon, specifically Camarines Sur, on the island of Luzon and within Region V-Bicol Region in Southern Luzon. Antipolo is a barangay in the municipality of Nabua, in the province of Camarines Sur. I have no idea how it got from the Philippines to Ethiopia after the war, but that appears to be the case. In any case I believe it is an all correct as issued late war M1 Carbine by Inland. I have posted pictures of the stock after I cleaned it up, which show the carving pretty clearly. I would be interested in your comments and/or conclusions regarding this gun.

The square with hawk in the middle carved into the stock is the patch of the 45th Inf Div. The 45th an Oklahoma NG Division, fought in Sicily and Italy in WW2. They also fought in Korea. This may be where the 45th Div comes into play as Ethiopian Kagnew Guards, the cream of the Army fought in Korea. Looking up the division affiliations of the Ethiopian soldiers were mostly 7th Div, but it is entirely possible that the small unit could have been involved with the 45th at the closing months of the Korean conflict. Since the Korean war was a UN conflict, it is also entirely possible that a unit of UN troops were involved in the Philippines. The Philippines signed the original charter of the UN in 1942.

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Originally Posted by jjspearson

I would be interested in your comments and/or conclusions regarding this gun.

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Jim, I have an Inland with a s/n very close to yours - 6,941,369. I haven't had it completely apart yet, but the barrel date is 2/45 same as yours. Here are a few of the markings on mine:

Front Sight: R
Mag Catch: E.I.
Rear Sight: PI
Front Band: A.I.

I'm curious if yours has an Inland stock? I just found your updated pictures today - but can't make out the markings in the sling well.

Does your stock have the cutout for an M2 selector switch?

Also would like to know if there are any markings on the safety lever.

Yours should have a hand stamped "1" in the M1 marking at the front of the receiver.

- Bob

Attachment 123156

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Originally Posted by USGI

Does your stock have the cutout for an M2 selector switch?

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You can see the cutout for the selector.

What an awesome find. I would love to have one from the Philippines. My wife is from that region and I can tell you from first-hand experience that there a bunches of M1 Garands and Carbine in civilian hands. If there was a way to get them back to the states I would have bought a few of them already,

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

You can see the cutout for the selector.

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Yep, thanks - now I can see it! Likely an SA marked stock. - Bob

Attachment 123173

Thank you for the information. I couldn't find that patch for any of the units that fought in the Philippines in 1945. Do you think the gun went to the Philippines after the Korean war or as I thought might have gone to the Philippines from the manufacturer in 1945?

---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------

Bob,

I don't see any marking at all in the sling well. The front sight has an "R" very small, behind the sight blade. Mag Catch looks like it has and "HI" or "IH". Looks like an "N" on the bottom of the safety lever, but partially obscured. It does have the hand stamped "1" at the front of the receiver right after the"30 M".

Jim

Bob,
Not sure if my reply got posted, so will try again. Front Sight has a very small "R" just behind the sight blade. I don't see any markings at all in the sling well. It has the cutout for an M@ selector switch. Safety lever has an "N" on the bottom, but partially obscured. There is a hand stamped "1" at the front of the receiver just after the "30 M" . Mag catch has "HI" or "IH". Rear sight has "I.R.C.O." but I don't see any other marking. Front band has "AI".
Jim

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Originally Posted by jjspearson

I don't see any markings at all in the sling well.

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If it's a Springfield Armory stock it will be stamped SA about where I have the yellow arrow in this picture. Like my Inland, I believe yours was likely upgraded after WWII and before it was in Korea. On mine, the safety and mag catch had both been changed to the later type. Look to see if your mag catch has the lug for use with 30rd mags. - Bob

Attachment 123180

My hand stamped 69007xx with 01/45 barrel is pretty close to yours, but totally without provenance. No M2 cutout... I'm glad you posted the "hand stamped 1", 'cause it looked like a "2" to my old eyes...

Russ

The R stamped on the front sight is for Rudy Furnace co.

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Originally Posted by RASelkirk

No M2 cutout...

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Not trying to hi-jack the OP's thread here, but just wondering something. Russ, does your stock have the long barrel channel like the one I pictured above (and below) - or does the channel at the front, end about where the yellow arrow is? Thanks! - Bob

Attachment 123216

Bob, mine has the long channel groove. Oddly, no other markings on the stock other than this in the slingwell.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../EQo7vYl-1.jpg

Russ

Russ, That's definitely an Inland stock, but I've never seen one with that hole in the slingwell. Is your stock basically flat from the trigger housing forward, or is does it have some "pot belly" to it like Jim's (jjspearson) as shown in his very first picture on page 1? I believe there were a couple variations of the Inland "long channel" stocks near the end of production. Painter777 (Charlie) has some notes posted on them either here or on the Carbine Club Forum, but I can't find them right now. The other markings in your slingwell must be someone's initials. - Bob

I've seen several stocks with that hole. I believe it is where the hole for the butt plate screw went too deep because someone wasn't paying attention. The stock would have been accepted anyway because the hole doesn't compromise anything. That is also why the hole is slightly oval instead of round. The drill hit the bevel at an angle.

Bob,, no pot belly on this one. I never gave that hole a thought, but James' answer is quite logical.

Russ

I saw what looked like a nick at the right edge of the hole, but thought it went straight in - perpendicular to the surface.

Russ: Does your stock have the "Crossed Cannons" acceptance stock on the RH side? Thanks! - Bob

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Originally Posted by USGI

I saw what looked like a nick at the right edge of the hole, but thought it went straight in - perpendicular to the surface.

Russ: Does your stock have the "Crossed Cannons" acceptance stock on the RH side? Thanks! - Bob

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No, no other markings. This stock does not appear to be heavily sanded, so I'd expect at least some of the normal markings to show through, but there's nothing my eyes can see hidden away.

Russ

Thanks, Russ. If anyone else reading this thread is interested in these late Inland questions, click on the links in the SIMILAR THREADS section at the bottom of the page. Lot's of "good stuff" to be found there! - Bob

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Originally Posted by RASelkirk

Bob, mine has the long channel groove. Oddly, no other markings on the stock other than this in the slingwell.

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Selky,
One theory....
When the stock makers sent stocks to the Prime makers they had to include so many extra stocks. Lets say for every 100 stocks and HG's they had to send 10 extra stocks and HG's as extras. In the field if a stock needed replacement a extra would be pulled from supply. Luck of the draw if it was the correct maker. Possible (?) your original that was accepted, having the CC stamp on it was damaged and a replacement put on it. There would be no Ordnance inspector there to stamp a CC on it. It was already bought and paid for.

Having a long channel with no M2 mods would likely make your stock a 'Transition' stock. Late made Type III stocks were getting beefed up as M2 production geared up.
Along with the longer barrel channel (which made this area stronger) look to see if your right rail is thicker. I know WRA had phased in the recoil plate support ledge near this time. I can't recall if the stock makers for Inland did the same at this time. I have a few Inland long channels but are stored way back in my vault. Holding a WRA or Inland Long Channel in hand you can feel the wrist is bulked up. Both having a stouter feel in hand.

Winchester built their M2's on the Late Type III stock but with the M2 mods applied.

This link (about 1/4 the way down) will show/describe more details on the 'Transitional' Type III stocks, some call these a Type IV. I prefer calling them 'Late Type III if they have no M2 mods. Having M2 mods makes it a Type IV to me.
From the CCCF and Jim Mock:
The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine Stocks & Handguards

The hole was added by someone, possibly for a sling attachment point. I've seen others like this used for sling attachment. Also where they screwed wood to fill the sling slot... though I don't believe thats the case on your stock.

To the OP,
That's a interesting find. It will take some dedicated research and some luck can't hurt. I've seen some that you'd think couldn't be solved like the Da Vinci Code. Then one day someone steps up and nails the meanings. Congrats on your find.

Cheers...

Bob,
There is no marking at all that I can see on the stock. There is no SA where you have indicated for sure. I removed the butt plate and there could be a very faint "EI" in the wood under the plate, but not sure. The mag catch is not an M2. There is and "M" on the catch, but no line underneath and no nub.

After more research, the carving on the right side of the stock is for a Philippine Army Headquarters Unit. “Alba” is also carved on the right side of the stock and “J. Alba” is carved on the bottom of the stock. Jose Alba served in Matta’s Battalion, 3rd Platoon, “B” Company Headquarters in the 3rd Squad, in 1945. The Battalion was stationed in Camarines Sur (you can see the location as Catabangan, C.S. in the documentation) in 1945. Pretty sure this was his rifle in that unit in 1945. So the gun went from Inland Manufacturing to the Philippines in 1945, and I think was turned in and shipped to Ethiopia in 1946/1947. Since it was a current configuration of the M1 Carbine and relatively new, I don’t believe it was re-arsenaled. As I learned from this site, the carving on the left side of the stock is the 45 Infantry Division that served in Korea. So I believe the rifle went with the Kagnew Batallion to Korea and was used there by the Ethiopians.

Outstanding! How many carbines can be traced through two wars and a trip around the world? The value of that clunker just doubled or higher. Great work.
D

That is some serious detective work! Congrats!

I forgot to post pictures of the hand stamped "M1" and the receiver serial number. Any one have any further info on the stock with no markings?

On my first trip to the Philippines back in ‘99 I remember seeing M1, M1A1 and M2 carbines everywhere. Every McDonalds had a guard outside with one. In Nov of ‘99 I was on Leyte in Tacloban and went to a birthday party for some girl with a friend. Her father was either in the Philippine Army, PBO (Philippine National Police). He was quite drunk and took out his Carbine and a .38 pistol then started telling me how many NPA (New Peoples Army) Communists he had killed with them. They really love their carbines over there.

My last trip in ‘17 all the guards were armed with M16’s , 12 gauge pumps and some local made mag fed semi/full auto 12 gauges that looked a little like a SPAS 15. I missed seeing the Carbines everywhere but the country had changed a lot.

My wife is a Filipina and I’d love to have a carbine that could be traced to the Philippines in WWII. I do have an Inland hand stamp, 6897116, but I have no idea where it served. It is a mixmaster Blue Sky import.

GuapoPogi

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Originally Posted by GuapoPogi

started telling me how many NPA (New Peoples Army) Communists he had killed with them. They really love their carbines over there.

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These guys?

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Originally Posted by painter777

These guys?

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I’m not sure of that rabble is NPA. I’m sure they are Filipino but they could be another group like MILF or Abu Seyaf. I thought I was subscribed this thread but I did not get a notification of your post.

GuapoPogi