What do you think happened to this Type 38 Carbine

Good evening everyone,

So I picked this carbine up yesterday at an estate sell after its previous owner sadly passed away. His son told me that his father had owned this rifle for the past half century or so. So what is the good on the rifle: Mum is intact, all numbers match, original cleaning rod, not import marked and in overall very nice shape but I have not cleaned it yet. The bad: as you will see in the picture there is a massive gash in the side of the stock. By looking at the wood it looks to be a very old point of damage. I know there is literally no way to know what happened but what do you all think? What are your thoughts? Could it be shrapnel and a bring back? Could it be an angry wife who came home early and grabbed the closest thing in the corner and started swinging? What say you?

P.S.
Can anyone point to a site or any resource that I can use to figure out a production date for this rifle? Thanks in advance.

Looks like a ricochet going sideways. Could have been a chunk of anything blown at high speed...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Looks like a ricochet going sideways. Could have been a chunk of anything blown at high speed..

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I agree, Just thought it would be interesting to speculate. If only these things could talk.

I thought exactly the same thing as soon as I saw the damage.
Very nice rifle!!!

A 4th series Carbine made at Chigusa factory of the Nagoya Army Arsenal. Probably 1937.

I saw a Nambu lmg with the cooling fins grooved lengthwise by a bullet and with fragment pockmarks on the right side of the receiver.

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Originally Posted by jangle

A 4th series Carbine made at Chigusa factory of the Nagoya Army Arsenal. Probably 1937.

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by tiriaq

I saw a Nambu lmg with the cooling fins grooved lengthwise by a bullet and with fragment pockmarks on the right side of the receiver.

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I think weapons like these are super interesting. I know it can never be said for certain but id rather have something like this with history than the immaculate never been outside example. The fun in milsurp collecting for me is the history and these pieces show their history.

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Ovidio

Very nice rifle!!!

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Thank you

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Originally Posted by LTPayton88

Good evening everyone,

So I picked this carbine up yesterday at an estate sell after its previous owner sadly passed away. His son told me that his father had owned this rifle for the past half century or so. So what is the good on the rifle: Mum is intact, all numbers match, original cleaning rod, not import marked and in overall very nice shape but I have not cleaned it yet. The bad: as you will see in the picture there is a massive gash in the side of the stock. By looking at the wood it looks to be a very old point of damage. I know there is literally no way to know what happened but what do you all think? What are your thoughts? Could it be shrapnel and a bring back? Could it be an angry wife who came home early and grabbed the closest thing in the corner and started swinging? What say you?

P.S.
Can anyone point to a site or any resource that I can use to figure out a production date for this rifle? Thanks in advance.

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Looks like forklift fork damage to me. Probably poor operator stuck fork right thru box of many rifles.

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Originally Posted by tlafave19

Looks like forklift fork damage to me. Probably poor operator stuck fork right thru box of many rifles.

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Possible. Anything could have happened. Cant discount anything

Since the Mum is intact, there is a good chance it was a battlefield pick-up which might help to explain the damage.

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Originally Posted by Singer B

Since the Mum is intact, there is a good chance it was a battlefield pick-up which might help to explain the damage.

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This was my thinking as well. Pretty much the only reason I went ahead and picked it up. It was extremely dirty from being in the back of a closet for 60 years. But on a bright note. I just finished cleaning it up and the bore is mirror bright and perfect. The tang screws are still have the case coloring. besides the stock looking the way it does the rest of the gun is pretty immaculate. Glad I didnt judge the book by its cover too hard.
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Once pulling it apart the inside of the rifle is very nice.

Definitely a keeper. Obviously has had a significant history.

As far as guns with a history goes...
Back in the '60s, a dealer on London ON told me about a Chinese made PPSh in town that was brought back from Korea along with its magazine chest pouch, which still had the magazines in it, along with 3 bullet holes from a Sten gun. The magazines were mangled, and the pouch blood soaked. He'd seen it.

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Originally Posted by Singer B

Definitely a keeper. Obviously has had a significant history.

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Yea I will be hanging on to this one for a while to say the least.

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Originally Posted by tiriaq

As far as guns with a history goes...

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That is really cool. So the guy that I picked this up from was in Korea himself. Again, I cant verify anything with this rifle but his son did say he had this rifle for at least 50 years. I wish there was a way to track something down.

I have a Limited Standard Type 99 rifle with battle damage from a mortar or artillery shell. You can see where the previous owner was holding the rifle at port arms probably running when he was hit.

I picked up a really nice Type 38 Carbine at Tulsa this year with similar interesting damage. Same thing; all original, even (most of) and original sling! And several gouges taken out of the grip and lower tang metal. My first thought battlefield/shrapnel damage. It was actually kind of a selling point for me; its got a story to tell, if only it could speak (and if only I could understand Japanese). I'll post some pictures later.

I think you have a really nice carbine with character!

Here we are, pictures of my 'battle damage.' The impression I get is perhaps shrapnel or very specific scraping across something. It's only on the one side and its the only place with anything more than the usual dings and dents. Mum HAS been ground on this one, but I can't imagine the the scrapes on the stock are intentional. Thoughts?


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../38hRtWt-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../yoWlKyF-1.jpg

Someone didn't like that rifle, and had a go at it with a sword or bayonet - an axe has a greater wedge effect, and would have removed chips between the cuts.

The cuts are parallel and close, indicating that the rifle was immobile (i.e. not being held up in self-defence) when it was attacked.

This is the best part. I love inventing stories to fill in the service history of a rifle. For the first rifle, I was gong to say shrapnel, then of course a bring back with that beautiful mum.

I recently sold off a series 7 Nagoya Type 99 that looked like it took a hard frag hit.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...12d42ab6-1.jpg


I also have a Type 38 carbine that was hit by frag or a bullet and cracked the stock down the center. I X-ray’d it at work one day, hoping to see a bullet or frag in the stock but whatever did the damage was removed.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9471fa8f-1.jpg