First Winchester

So i picked up one of the Royal Tiger M1 carbines Through Classic Firearms and paid more than i should have but ended very Happy. So i believe it`s fairly low number 1,145,XXX. The rifle was sold at a discount because they listed a cracked stock. Mine has a hole in it. It came with a scruff of a sling left behind held in place with a piece of driftwood or a mummified finger? The barrel and receiver metal is in remarkable condition. And the bore is amazing. I don`t have a muzzle gauge but a cartridge wont go closer than 1/8" from going all the way into the muzzle. I don`t know how such a nice rifle ended up with such a POS stock but i love it. Can anyone tell me an approximate manufacture date?

Your receiver was stamped between xxx and xxx '43.

Thank You Jangle. it`s kind of confusing figuring out the production charts i have seen.

Has a Winchester barrel and most other parts i have seen are also stamped Winchester. These Ethiopian Surplus rifles are a real role of the dice buying sight unseen. But i believe i have a nice example. Still has milled rear sights. Can`t seem to get another picture small enough to down load? The stock came with the Ethiopian type 7 ventilated fore stock modification! :)

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Originally Posted by jangle

Your receiver was stamped between xxx and xxx '43.

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:D

M1 C,
Chart shows last SN stamped that day:

1943,
July 6- 1,145,024
July 7- 1,145,497
July 8- 1,146,650

+1 ;)

Thank You painter777 . I see, Born on the 7th of July 43. Finally figured out how to resize my pictures. Her she is. She has a stock as black as coal and fully ventilated.

I almost want to believe i can see some stamps on that wood but NOOO.

WRA stamps are some of the best lasting you'll find. Anything in the sling well? There is often nothing in the Winchester slingwell.

Nothing in the sling well. I want to believe i see something something on the left side below the bolt but... I can`t say there`s anything left. I love it. The stock sure shows her travels. I guess who ever got it used it for a club more than shooting it. It looks like it was used to fight off Lions.

From a bulk purchase of stocks I had a NPM stock that had a hole on each side, located in the same area as yours.
I assumed it might have been from some type of Bi-Pod. I gave it to someone that used Aqua Glass (?). It came out ok.

With your picture magnified I might have imagined seeing a box near your oiler slot......... Thinking it might be whats left of a RIA over EB stamp... But IDK :confused:

Any plans to Deep clean the wood?

Any sign of a small ordnance bomb near the recoil plate?
We've seen this little bomb stamp on many RIA/EB stamped stocks.... See 2nd picture.

How long is the barrel channel?

Number of holes under the butt plate?
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=73123

Any letter or numbers stamped on the inner wood bridge or right inside rail?

Does it have the extra support cut under the recoil plate ledge? (see 1st picture)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC06596-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC04068-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by M1 C FAN

So i picked up one of the Royal Tiger M1 carbines Through Classic Firearms and paid more than i should have but ended very Happy. So i believe it`s fairly low number 1,145,XXX. The rifle was sold at a discount because they listed a cracked stock. Mine has a hole in it. It came with a scruff of a sling left behind held in place with a piece of driftwood or a mummified finger? The barrel and receiver metal is in remarkable condition. And the bore is amazing. I don`t have a muzzle gauge but a cartridge wont go closer than 1/8" from going all the way into the muzzle. I don`t know how such a nice rifle ended up with such a POS stock but i love it. Can anyone tell me an approximate manufacture date?

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You've picked up a nice rifle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jangle

+1 ;)

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That stock is great! Pre-charcoaled and with extra ventilation! You should have paid extra for those features!

I am more than pleased with what I got. I paid alot for an imported rifle but they are getting harder to find everyday. She shoots flawlessly. I am really hooked on Winchester service rifles now days. Painter777 I will have to check all those cool details. I can almost imagine a suspicious mark here and there that i would like to be something beside Tank Tracks. So 3 1/2" barrel channel. three holes under butt plate. I would like to think it has a square corner near the oiler hole?? It has a Inland Trigger housing with Winchester Hammer haven`t disassembled more. Very nice Winchester Barrel. I am very happy with Classic Firearms.

I really do like the stock i imagine the hole is where they used it to fight off a lion. No ammo. ever used in it. I really like the mummified finger holding the sling.

The metal looks good, no pits, could be all Win?
Charlie: Is that a weird ordnance ball? I know a lot about obscure ordnance balls on Win Barrels.

No rust anywhere except the tiniest bit on the barrel band. I can`t imagine how the stock got so bad and the metal stayed so nice? All i know is the Rifles Gods were smiling on me when Classic sent me such a great example hiding in such a Cruddy old stock. I really do love the stock it has character. But i also had an OLD thing just leaning around waiting for a gal to wear it.

They probably robbed the original stock and replaced it with the scrap one. Doesn't really matter now, it looks presentable now and the new stock is a much better stock all around.
You need to look for one of these:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...731528_w-1.jpg
Is your ordnance ball on the barrel flat like this?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dcbb8b_w-1.jpg

With those stamps readily available it seems a authentic one is harder and harder to prove.

Don't be too cautious, these are genuine Winchester stamps. They just are hit harder and the wood is Winchester wood. The Ordnance ball caused an uproar because this carbine is considered to be completely original (it has an AU recoil plate, one of 5,000 sent to Win by Underwood in Nov of '43). Some folks threw it under the bus over that barrel marking. Marty Black put a bit in the final issue of the CC magazine asking people to respond if they had one like it and about 6 months later several surfaced. Marty was right, it was just an "Oddball" Winchester stamp. Many many Winchester stocks look this good. Don't assume it was humped. It may be too late for your carbine, but it is a Win. By the way, there is really nothing particularly special about Winchester carbines except the name. Their metal finishing is just as rushed as any of the others. They also assembled after being finished, so it isn't unusual for front sights to look like they've been removed and replaced...humped. I think that Underwood and NPM made as good or better guns.
There is a "Mirror Image" gun in the same SN# area complete with an AU plate in the CC files. BQ has another way of identifying an original and it's simple: If it is a humped or corrected gun, why would Bubba leave in an AU plate? Winchester plates are all over and cheap.

Here's one that just sold on GB with 74 pictures. I'm glad I got my Winchester when I did! - Bob

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/921234840

I just have an issue with Winchester Service rifles in general right now. It looks nice next to the 1917. I really want a Winchester M1 Garand now to go with my 52 Springfield. But This is the first double in my collection... I`M new. It sets nice with my IBM.

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Originally Posted by USGI

I'm glad I got my Winchester when I did! - Bob

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/921234840

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GIBob,
At $1450 it's still cheaper than the recent Import stamped more expensive ones.
Been seeing some commercials nearly fetching this much with some extras included.
Funny they have no mention of there being a CC stamp and the sling well being marked OI.

Pics 2 and 3: Look like a cut down Hi-Wood to you ?
I think maybe so, by also taking in to account the notch line ups between the stock and hand guard.

The Gunbroker rifle is a bargain at $1400 if you are on the Left coast.

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Originally Posted by painter777

Pics 2 and 3: Look like a cut down Hi-Wood to you ?

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Been busy with other "stuff" lately, and also hoping a few more would "chime in" about that GB Winchester. I missed seeing that evidence of being 'cut-down" but believe you're right - it's noticeable in several pics.

I know you and Dave both have a point about the price, but look at all those rebuild marks, and that horrible finish (stock & metal) - maybe that's why so many of the pictures are dark. Do you guys think that's black paint? Lots of stake marks on the adjustable sight install, too!

Hi-jacking the OP's thread here for a minute to ask Dave about his stock. The acceptance stamps on mine are reversed from yours and understand they were done both ways - but thought our s/n's were fairly close to each other. Mine has the "wheel" to the RH side.

M1 C Fan: I own a '17 Winchester, too! - My Dad's deer rifle from the 50's (sporterized) - I don't remember it, but both of my older brothers say he had a Krag before getting the Model '17. :thup: - Bob

Attachment 123582

20 years ago, every carbine that went on these forums was picked to pieces. The responses ranged from expert to don't know nuthin'. A lot of people assumed that since the Win cartouches were always so fresh looking that they had to be humped. It ultimately came down to the truth: their stamps were just deeper and sharper. Another anomaly was that markings in the slingwell on Win. were sometimes missing, incorrectly done or well hidden in the wood grain. I'd bet that since Win. made their own stocks that it wasn't an issue for the stampers (We know who made them, so does everybody else). If I was using somewhat sketchy quality stocks made by someone else I'd be very interested in telling the user who did screw up. I have an original 1944 Inland that has nice Hillerich & Bradsby matching wood. The handguard is so poorly done that it obscures at least half of the front sight. It works but just barely. It came with the gun and Inland used it because they were in a hurry. You wouldn't see that on a Win. As far as the parts of your Win. stamping being different, I think that their only concern was getting the two parts on the same line. You never see vertical screw ups but you do see spacing differences. I'm very thankful that the vetting by ignorance phase of these forums was ended years ago. Riverbank George used to actually participate arguing like crazy about how all his stuff was genuine.