Cut away L9A1

Hi all,

What does the crowd think of this? I collect Cutaway fireams and I've never seen a Cutaway L9A1 .... This one is too rich for my blood though and it's been deactivated for some odd reason, with a pinned chamber ... Quite why you would pin a chamber with 50% of it cut away is quite beyond me!

So, what do we think, is it a legit L9A1, 1968 dated, it seems to have MK3 features and a ring hammer, doesn't seem right, but I'm no Hi- Power expert, what do you think guys?
https://www.dandbmilitaria.com/deactivated-cutaway-l9a1-high-power-sn-0781

I think it is a Deact that has been skeletonised by D&B, they appear to have more than one

Cheers Roy, it doesn't seem right to me...

I thought the Fn L9A1 was basically a standard milspec MK2, so spur hammer, standard plastic grips and standard safety.

I thought the ring hammer was out of production by the late 60's, but I'm no expert on these....

Pics for posterity.

The mix of late/early parts is fine for service in the British Army as long as they worked as they should, it looks like the types I have worked on,
But I have never seen a cut away instructional L9, we did not even see them in Armourer training while learning the "action of Mech" and very few soldiers would be taught the L9 in basic training. I can not see the requirement for a cut away in the British Army ( would it not be re designated a new "L" number) and they would not obliterate the serial number!

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Pics for posterity.

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Cheers Jim, much appreciated...

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Originally Posted by skiprat

The mix of late/early parts is fine for service in the British Army as long as they worked as they should, it looks like the types I have worked on,
But I have never seen a cut away instructional L9, we did not even see them in Armourer training while learning the "action of Mech" and very few soldiers would be taught the L9 in basic training. I can not see the requirement for a cut away in the British Army ( would it not be re designated a new "L" number) and they would not obliterate the serial number!

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Cheers Andy, I've certainly never heard of a cutaway example and was under the impression that the L9A1 was covered under the same 'block' as every other service Firearm post 2000 and prohibited from sale to the public in any capacity?

I would guess the Ring Hammer is from an earlier Ingles example..

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

the L9A1 was covered under the same 'block' as every other service Firearm post 2000 and prohibited from sale to the public in any capacity?

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Didn't Peter L have a big go round in court as expert witness about this sort of firearm and their ability to fire? Or something like that?

Rings a bell Jim, I think it involved a DP standard L1A1 from memory, that found itself in a private collection?

Cutaway fireams are utterly incapable of discharging anything, for obvious reasons, so deactivated by design.

I've a collection of them, all bought from RFD's, who in turn had them cleared for sale by their Police force areas and all totally safe with no usable pressure baring parts.

From a UK perspective, I've always advised anyone who's interested in buying one, to only buy from an RFD and do your due diligence checks.

Small additional point, the trigger axis pin appears to have been replaced with a roll pin, is that a standard service replacement?

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Taking a closer look at the chamber cut Andy, this is slightly rough from what can be seen, I can't see this having been done in the British Army as a display, presentation, or armourers special one off for training proposes etc.

The standard of workmanship isn't good enough....

the roll pin for the trigger axis pin is a standard fit towards the end of service, I don't see anything wrong as a deactivated L9 pistol....... and I am sure (!!!!) pistols were been released as surplus before the MOD's total ban ( but don't quote me on that as history may be changed to fit MOD requirements...)
I would say there were very few places that would use it as a training aid REME Armourer training, (Bordon or Arborfield) SASC in Warminster or Shrivenham,
I have seen a L1A1 that was mounted on a display board and was powered by an eclectic motor to move the working parts backwards and forwards and used in recruiting displays so one off "modifications" did happen. and the workmanship was not always the best,

Having seen the Retailers 1"1/2 "British Army Issue riot gun" I have my suspicions!

I did a fully skeletonised L9 pistol for the SASC at Warminster using the machinery in the old Bedford machinery truck. It replaced an old hotch-potch thing that never worked properly and was useless for anything. Because the people who did iin the 50's didn't realise that certain parts had to remain in contact throughout its recoil and run-out phases. It is still there. I did a lot of others too that were given away as presentation pieces

Amazing how you wish you had kept things after they had gone and the prices went through the roof.
I owned one the first Brens "skeletonised" for the 1938 Crystal Palace Exhibition which Peter L and I have spoken about in the dim distant past, where only 3 were ever done, and one of the three is at Warminster on display. I also had at the same time a "Skeletonised" L1A1. Both were fully open to view and really good jobs on both, done by whoever, probably apprentices at their respective times.
I sold them together with a load of other De-Ac kit for silly money just to get rid of them at the time..........................how sometimes you wish you had kept stuff. Where is that Crystal ball when you want one??

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Amazing how you wish you had kept things after they had gone and the prices went through the roof.
I owned one the first Brens "skeletonised" for the 1938 Crystal Palace Exhibition which Peter L and I have spoken about in the dim distant past, where only 3 were ever done, and one of the three is at Warminster on display. I also had at the same time a "Skeletonised" L1A1. Both were fully open to view and really good jobs on both, done by whoever, probably apprentices at their respective times.
I sold them together with a load of other De-Ac kit for silly money just to get rid of them at the time..........................how sometimes you wish you had kept stuff. Where is that Crystal ball when you want one??

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Here's the Bren, it passed my way after it left Gil, wonderful piece, but too much for me.... The L1 stayed with me as the pride of my non FAC collection...

Neither of us knew this until a few months back!

Nice touch as well John, that they had actually polished the metal to a high standard to make it stand out, but I suppose it was a sales pitch back then in 1938 to show the state of the art British Invention!!
Should have kept it on reflection:thup:

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Here's the Bren, it passed my way after it left Gil, wonderful piece, but too much for me.... The L1 stayed with me as the pride of my non FAC collection...

Neither of us knew this until a few months back!

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Attachment 125863

I'm afraid there has been a bit of a mix up - while the barrel is a MkI, the receiver body is a Mk3 - so the earliest that gun in the photo could be is late 1943/early 1944.

wrong photo perhaps?

Yes correctimondo, we were just testing you, and wanted to see who would spot it :lol:.

Yes it was for the EMPIRE EXHIBITION in 1948 not 38 as I stated earlier.

It is indeed a MK111 with a MK1 Barrel and rear leaf sight. Just found the paperwork for them.

It was one of only two made by the Apprentice Master at Enfield. It has no numbers on it at all as it was never intended to be a firearm, and produced in silver and only made for display purposes.
As stated earlier after speaking to Peter L, the second Bren is on display at the Small Arms Service Corps HQ Warminster.
So the two of them are as rare as Rocking Horse poo! :thup:

I sold it with a large number of other De-Acs on the 3rd of July 2014 to a well known dealer in Thames Valley.................no names no pack drill!!

I picked up nine of these last week from deceased persons effects.
There may be some paperwork from his police force about their status.
Until then sadly they remain section 5.

Eric,
They must take so much patience to produce those cutaways. Really nice too.
Looks like they have bundled them all in together on the same ticket with the live firers he must have held, as those clearly would never shoot again and shouldn't be labelled as such, but heyho each Force to their own on those by the looks of things.

Gill
You are right I was called in to take the guns held on his licence.
The cutaways were not on ticket and there is apparently a letter from his Police Force
stating they are non guns. This letter I'm told is dated around 2000. At this time the family
have mislaid it. To remain on the safe side I'm treating them as section 5.

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Originally Posted by 303 Collector

Gill
You are right I was called in to take the guns held on his licence.
The cutaways were not on ticket and there is apparently a letter from his Police Force
stating they are non guns. This letter I'm told is dated around 2000. At this time the family
have mislaid it. To remain on the safe side I'm treating them as section 5.

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Best be safe .. that said, clearly deactivated by other means and utterly incapable of discharging anything, certainly the 9mm C96 is a thing of beauty!

Eric,
Difficult one that. Once documented as such, its a minefiled to remove it, especially at present with so many Firearms Staff packing it in with constant changes to work times,practises and of course access to the actual office and the computer.
Some Forces have delays on forms of up to 3 months with Lincolnshire holding the winning ticket currently, but the staff do their best under prevailing circumstances not withstanding COVID.
My advice would be to speak to your Force Firearms Licencing Officer personally which should be possible in the situation.
Good luck mate as these are too good to let lie or have crushed!!;)

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Eric,
Difficult one that. Once documented as such, its a minefiled to remove it, especially at present with so many Firearms Staff packing it in with constant changes to work times,practises and of course access to the actual office and the computer.
Some Forces have delays on forms of up to 3 months with Lincolnshire holding the winning ticket currently, but the staff do their best under prevailing circumstances not withstanding COVID.
My advice would be to speak to your Force Firearms Licencing Officer personally which should be possible in the situation.
Good luck mate as these are too good to let lie or have crushed!!;)

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3 Months? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Hampshire are currently taking 6mths+ for variations. Applications might as well hibernate.

I think Lincs are doing quite well

Attached are two more of the cutaways a German zigzag and a Colt new service.
Most people don't seem interested in cutaway firearms.
The third one is one of mine.

Eric,
They were always intended to provide the hidden miracles on the true workings of a weapon, and the marvellous workmanship that went into thier construction and use.
Some are more detailed than others but thats the limit to some workshops and time that it takes to build these.
Great collection for anybody's office or workshop.
Thanks for sharing.

RoyW,
Thats not good at all and in noones interest. Here in Cambs they only take a couple of weeks, so we all thought 3 months was well over the top, but clearly not lol

Evening Eric, I have a reasonable collection of cutaway Firearms, all bought or traded through RFD's.

My advice to others had always been to consult your local FEO's and always purchase via an RFD.

My cutaway collection currently consists of L1A1, No4 (full length), Ppsh41, DP28 and Vz58

All facinating pieces and All perfectly safe with all pressure baring parts milled away, utterly incapable of discharging anything.