He wants a BNZ

Howdy Fellas!
I eldest has caught our disease and has gotten into collecting Military Surplus Rifles; he says he just wants to collect WWII rifles, but we ALL know how that ends up.

He keeps bugging me about German BNZ Mausers and because that's sort of out of my realm and I can only provide him information from the various Mauser books I have. I told him he should join this group. But having his own plumbing business seems to take over his "free" time and he always for gets.

On his search, or even mine helping him, what should he be looking for and looking out for when it comes to a BNZ?

Appreacted any help!

Bill

The problem with BNZ K-98k rifles is there is a lot of misinformation out there in print and internet . Most people do not understand there were TWO factories making rifles under the BNZ stamp .. Steyr and Radom . Steyr sent an inspector to Radom , WA 77 , his name and address in Radom is listed . Himmler was in control of the Radom plant and used it to make rifles for his SS early in the war when they were outside of the German military supply chain . Look for an early 40 - 42 rifle , with a footed 4 as that stamp was used only at Radom and the WA -77 . Sorry the books are wrong and the people who only read then to become "experts " are wrong . The people in Poland with the records and old relatives that worked there are correct . Neither of those sources were available to early book writers .

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Originally Posted by bob q

The problem with BNZ K-98k rifles is there is a lot of misinformation out there in print and internet . Most people do not understand there were TWO factories making rifles under the BNZ stamp .. Steyr and Radom . Steyr sent an inspector to Radom , WA 77 , his name and address in Radom is listed . Himmler was in control of the Radom plant and used it to make rifles for his SS early in the war when they were outside of the German military supply chain . Look for an early 40 - 42 rifle , with a footed 4 as that stamp was used only at Radom and the WA -77 . Sorry the books are wrong and the people who only read then to become "experts " are wrong . The people in Poland with the records and old relatives that worked there are correct . Neither of those sources were available to early book writers .

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Which books are you referring to?

The footed 4 indeed indicates Radom made receiver, but not a Radom assembled rifle, as Radom never made complete K98k's, they supplied parts kits, to the Steyr plant, as Radom never made any Karabiner barrels.

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Originally Posted by usabaker

Howdy Fellas!
He keeps bugging me about German BNZ Mausers and because that's sort of out of my realm and I can only provide him information from the various Mauser books I have. I told him he should join this group.

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Why does he want a BNZ...?

They were far from the best made rifles, and the connections to slave labour and the Gusen camps does make their desirability by many as somewhat odd, but they are not exactly rare, especially in later years.
As said above, an early 660 marked 1940 G.29/40 would be the desirable rariity. I missed out on one of those a few years back, although it had been a Norwegian surrender rifle, and gone through their conversion to 30-06 in the 1950's, so no longer original as such.

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Originally Posted by GeeRam

Which books are you referring to?

The footed 4 indeed indicates Radom made receiver, but not a Radom assembled rifle, as Radom never made complete K98k's, they supplied parts kits, to the Steyr plant, as Radom never made any Karabiner barrels.

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Then the Poles who said they made complete rifles are wrong ? The records from Radom are wrong ? That is my point , old bad info .

About 15 years ago a friend of mine did a research project on BNZ Radom rifles . He bought about 100 to examine , How many do you have ? He was in contact with people in Poland and Radom . Since most SS units fought on the eastern front , all the Russian captured K98k's that turned up really gave new info .

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Originally Posted by GeeRam

Why does he want a BNZ...?

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I think he has it was told the SS were issued some of these, I recall him saying something about that.

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Originally Posted by usabaker

I think he has it was told the SS were issued some of these, I recall him saying something about that.

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Yes, but they will be marked as such....and trying to determine a real one, rather than the many fakes that are around takes knowledge.
Not all Steyr production was for the SS.

---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by bob q

About 15 years ago a friend of mine did a research project on BNZ Radom rifles . He bought about 100 to examine , How many do you have ? He was in contact with people in Poland and Radom . Since most SS units fought on the eastern front , all the Russian captured K98k's that turned up really gave new info .

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Was it published, and if so where can it viewed/obtained?

Okay, if the BNZ is not really the best to collect, which Germain Mauser from the WWII period should he be looking for?

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Originally Posted by usabaker

Okay, if the BNZ is not really the best to collect, which Germain Mauser from the WWII period should he be looking for?

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Is it to collect, or does he want to shoot it?
If its to collect, the important consideration these days, is condition and original matching numbers etc., in which case, limited options means you buy the best example you can regardless of the manufacturer.
If he wants a shooter, then, again, buy the best example you can with the best barrel, matching numbers and other stuff is less of a consideration. Ex-Soviet Capture, or ex-Portuguese ones used to be the cheap option for best shooters, but even these now are getting pricey as K98k prices go through the roof.
Lots and lots of faked, and bubba'd junk out there though, and at silly prices, so you need to learn what you are looking at otherwise you'll get mugged.

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Originally Posted by GeeRam

Is it to collect, or does he want to shoot it?

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A collectible shooter, but more on the collector side. Thanks for the advice.

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Originally Posted by usabaker

A collectible shooter, but more on the collector side. Thanks for the advice.

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What is his budget, or is that not a consideration?

To be honest, and don't take this too harshly, but I think he'd be better off just trying for a shooter, rather than the collector side.
As the knowledge reqd to not get burned, and end up with an expensive bubb'd and faked pos, will take a long time to acquire, and given you taken to posting on his behalf as he's otherwise occupied, he clearly lacks the resolve to spend what would be considerable time joining the K98Forum and spending a year or more soaking up the info on there to stand a chance of dipping his toe into the K98k collectors world. He's not going to acquire that knowledge overnight I'm afraid.