Afternoon all?
What do we all think of this oddity then? Apparently Enfield, but clearly an Lithgow cut receiver... Numbers on the Magazine well too....
Deactivated L1A1 SLR SN. 0565 ^
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Afternoon all?
What do we all think of this oddity then? Apparently Enfield, but clearly an Lithgow cut receiver... Numbers on the Magazine well too....
Deactivated L1A1 SLR SN. 0565 ^
It is not a Lithgow receiver. It is clearly marked UE which is Enfield.
Attachment 124856Attachment 124857Take a look at the receiver machining Woodsy, it's clearly Lithgow.
The machining cut around the locking shoulder area is curved like the parent Fal on Lithgow and CAL inch patterns and UK production is squared off (for some reason). It's more noticeable on the right hand side to be fair....
I've just noticed, not only is the receiver clearly Lithgow, but so is the TMH, note the 'A' automatic marking, interestingly enough, with a different UK serial number on it!
OK. I just couldn't imagine someone going to that amount of trouble for a de-act!
It's difficult to be precise from that photograph but it looks like the serial on the upper begins UE80.... but hadn't Enfield stopped production of their own new L1A1s by the late 1970s?
So could it be that it's a Lithgow supplied upper but used by RSAF and so numbered accordingly by Enfield. I thought I'd read somewhere that the UK had to buy in Lithgow made rifles/parts in the 80's as RSAF had ceased production (plus Parker Hale making barrels and other parts at that time as well)?
The more I look, the more interesting this one gets mate!Quote:
Originally Posted by desperatedan
There's also a UE80 on the Mag well, it's in exactly the same place as a few of mine (a UE62 UE63).
As far as I know Enfield made a final top up batch of rifles in 1966.
Though Lithgow supplied several batches of Rifles to the Mod, these were complete, serial numbered batches, less furniture.
5 in 1971 followed by small batches in 1973 again in 1975.
Interestingly, AD8000616 to AD8000621 are listed as being supplied to the UK in 1980.
I wonder if this is one of the 5? Perhaps the Lithgow serial was removed on the right?
I initially thought it was a lash up, now I'm beginning to wonder, where's the resident L1 guru Kev?
Love to know what he makes of it.....
Images saved for further study...
John,Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
If it's a Lithgow made/supplied receiver I don't think it's a simple case of removal of the "AD" serial on the RHS and an Enfield "UE" one being added on the LHS in the usual place. If you look at the rest of the nomenclature "RIFLE 7.62..." it has millimetres expressed as "m/m" rather than "mm".
IIRC Lithgow (and BSA) used plain "7.62mm" ( without a / ) but Enfield marked theirs as "7.62m/m" so the entirety of those markings appear to have been Enfield applied.
Good spot, the mystery deepens.....Quote:
Originally Posted by desperatedan
This is an intriguing rifle.
Ive never seen a serial number so high... well in fact two serial numbers so high (UE80 A200565 (Body) & UE83 A201447 (TMH))
The Body is Australian, it doesn't have RIFLE, 7.62MM, so its not one of the normal 'Spare' Body's that were available.
Its possible Lithgow supplied Blank body's and TMH to Enfield for their own small production run where they have put the Enfield markings on the Bodies as Lithgow did supply large quantities of parts to the MOD. Why I say that is the Body has a Concession marking C21676, probably indicating the Body doesn't match the standard British Body but is acceptable for service.
Here are some things I notice about the rifle:-
RIFLE 7.62M/M LIAI UE80 A200565
C21676
D80
960-2302 D79 /|\ (Cocking Handle Slide)
Tabs on the top cover are buggered…. RH side is missing, LH side is heavily cracked
Gas Block is British
Magazine is from an Indian 1A1 Rifle
Incorrect front Sling Swivel… possible from a Lee Enfield
Gas Plug in the wrong position by 45 degs
Early Flash Eliminator
Trigger Mechanism Housing belongs to another rifle UE83 A201447
On that I do have a pic taken from the web many years ago, probably from another deact rifle marked RIFLE7.62M/MLIAI UE83 A20xxxx
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...edAIWpng-1.jpg
Here's the markings from a 1961 made Enfield L1A1 rifle
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../FBfBCRK-1.jpg
Cheers Kev, many thanks for your L1 expertise as ever.
It is a very interesting rifle, it's such a shame records from Enfield aren't available. It looks like some rather interesting things were going on at the factory in the early 1980's. I wonder how many rifles were built up on Lithgow Receiver and TMH assemblies?
I find it very interesting that we effectively have two rifles here with 1980's Enfield markings.
It suggests that a batch of late rifles have been stripped, deactivated and reassembled as mix masters.
I've never even heard of such a late rifle appearing in the US, either complete or as parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
My guess is that the MoD needed small quantities of new rifles (maybe to replace scrapped ones), they couldn't justify purchasing complete rifles from Lithgow as they had done a decade earlier, and Enfield decided they didn't need enough rifle bodies and TMHs to justify making them domestically. Sort of a "late in life" compromise to extend the rifle's service a little longer, especially with (for better or worse) a replacement already on the horizon.
A detailed examination of both rifles (the original one, and the one mentioned above by Kevin) for part dates and makers might have yielded some interesting clues.
Also
Rear sling swivel missing.
From what I can make out in the photo the front sight grub screw could be missing.
Front sight looks suspiciously high, bent barrel?
Looks like the gas cylinder is missing. Part of the deac perhaps?
The head of the rivet under the tmh lever looks like it’s been messed with.
Locking shoulder, from r/h side looks poorly fitted.
The back sight leaf should have an angle cut on its front side on the side where the stop pin is. Prevented shearing off of said pin and losing your back sight.
On the British variant at least, there should be the rifles serial number clearly marked on the carrier and visible through the ejection slot.
Bets on the bolt having a different serial number?
The fractures in the top slide are not uncommon. When the fracture was observed the fractured section was removed and the area that had contained the now missing part was filed off to a square profile. That’s at least how we did it in the 80’s.
A Bitser? Put together by someone lacking the requisite knowledge.
We never replaced an old pattern flash eliminator just because a newer one was available. If it wasn’t broke leave it alone.
---------- Post added at 04:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------
And poorly fitted hand guards.
I think many of these things are assembled from parts bins, probably because it's easier to store Section one parts than complete Section five rifles...
I believe they generally remove / don't fit gas tubes and the pivot pin assembly is now welded together to allow pivot, but prevent disassembly of the deactivated rifle.
I see what you mean about locking shoulder, looks like someone malleted it in the wrong way round with a sledgehammer!
I could see that...what parts would require special storage, apart from the barreled action bodies?Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Per the large overall view of the left side, the trigger's an Enfield 87.
Basically, restricted and licenced parts are components that would be regarded as pressure baring, i.e, barrel, receiver, breech block and Carrier in the case of the L1A1.Quote:
Originally Posted by enbloc8
The only caveat would be the Flash Eliminator, that's regarded as a controlled part.
Oddly, the TMH is a grey area, some regard it as controlled, others not. I would say controlled just be on the side of caution..
In the UK, complete rifles would be covered under the more restrictive Section 5 of the firearm Act, but reduced to component parts, the parts become Section 1. A less restrictive classification.
I think I am correct in saying that a Section one dealer, could deactivate the component parts and assemble and certificate a deactivated L1 while remaining within Section 1??
I believe the exception to this rule is handgun parts, as they remain section 5.