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I'm looking at this rifle for possible purchase this Saturday.
Model 1884 S/N 558648
Seller claims made in 1892 and all original.
These are pictures from the ad.
Includes dies brass bullets primers and powder. Seems like a good deal but we'll see.
Thank you for any help you can give.
Really nice setup!
What are they asking?
$1300 for everything but hoping to get it for $1200Quote:
Originally Posted by rcathey
Total up the added stuff, subtract from price. Should give you the price for the gun alone. Reconsider then.
I have no hit in SRS #1. Not even close. I think if you manage $1200USD on all that you've done well. It's a rod bayonet rifle after all. Should be a premium.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfoneguy
Jim this rifle seems to be something of an anomaly. It has a Sam Porter 92 cartouche but according to the book my daughters boyfriend has it misses the last produced rifle serial number for 1892 by 84 above. It also says they made some 4700 rifles in '93 yet it's '92 dated. Could it be a replacement stock or did Springfield not bother making a '93 stamp because they were simply assembling rifles from parts as it was the end of the run for these?Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
The seller has it listed as $1100 for just the rifle $1300 for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daan Kemp
I've yet to see it in person to do an inventory of the extras but based on the prices for powder and primers here locally that's at least a $125 plus right there beside the fact they are currently unobtainable. Brass depending on the brand is at least $75 per 100 before tax and shipping.
It is a rod-bayonet rifle, but appears to have some type of custom 'rod' (and not a bayonet-rod) in place?
Honestly I don't know. My daughters boyfriend knows more about these than I do. He says it looks like it matches what his ramrod rifle has which is also an oddball with an 1875 receiver. This is among the very last of these built so there are bound to be differences from older ones. Basically a parts rifle I would think.Quote:
Originally Posted by butlersrangers
Not my area of expertise and I have no dog in the fight, but there is something very unusual about the rod on that trapdoor.
The rod-bayonet 'tip' normally looks like this attached photo. (I am not aware of any 'issued' protective cover)?
You are correct. Look at them side by side it seems like the bayonet bracket on the one I'm going to look at is on backwards. Is that even possible? See how the release button is to the front on your picture and it's to the rear on this one? Good catch! Something I'm going to have to pay close attention to, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by butlersrangers
Update, spoke to my daughters boyfriend and he explained the bayonet bracket is removable and apparently this one was put back reversed that's why the bayonet doesn't have a point and the release button is to the rear. Going forward I will refer to him by his name Paul it's quicker to type.
So my resident go-to expert for all things trapdoor is Paul.
The rifle you are considering, in addition to having the latch on backwards, has a rod that is not a model 1888 trapdoor bayonet.
There appear to be six areas on the 'odd' rod that have knurling.
A rod-bayonet has a tip that is pointed, kind of like a 'Philips-head screwdriver', and only a single broad area of knurling.
The rifle in question could have something rare and exotic, but I doubt it.
Well I'll find out tomorrow and let you all know. Thanks for the possible price negotiating tool.
The bayonet isn't inserted reversed is it? Point inward?
Not inverted.
A quick search of known parts dealers would indicate a loose trapdoor ramrod-bayonet is no easy or cheap matter to find or replace. It does not appear to be reproduced either.
Would anyone have a photo available of a completely removed rod bayonet that I can use for comparison? You may same me from making an expensive mistake.
I did that and couldn't even find an example of a rod bayonet, except one I think...Quote:
Originally Posted by butlersrangers
I can't find a photo of a compete model 1888 rod-bayonet, online. There are some implements that function with the small end of the rod.
So, I imagine there is a small thread or ribbing on the non-pointy end.
Attachment 125899
That's really what I needed to see thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by butlersrangers
Here's a pic from Guns International showing the ramrod bayonet still in it's channel but you can see all of it.
Ok the rifle is mine now. After extensive hammering back and forth I got everything for $1100.
In all I'm happy based on the overall condition of it. Lots of bluing left, beautiful case hardening on the receiver, great bore and muzzle crown especially for a 130 year old rifle.
The good:
Excellent bore and overall condition including nice wood
Seems to be mostly matching with the front sight cover in place
100 1x fired brass 200+ new unfired brass and 39 loaded rounds
Approximately 600 bullets of 2 different weights
7/8 ths of a pound of powder and wadding
Approximately 220 primers
Lee 3 die set with 2 shell holders
Lee case length gauge new in package
New .460 dia Boresnake
Carrying case
The bad:
No Bayonet that's just some unidentified blued steel rod in its place
Lockplate isn't original and what's there is undated
Lockplate screws are replaced
Trigger guard sling swivel is missing
Buffington sight is slightly loose at the pivot pin
Missing chip of wood behind front barrel band
Only 1 rod attachment in butt trapp
Block release has been peened
Photos of it are exactly as I picked it up haven't had a chance to clean it yet and seem to have loaded randomly for some reason. Seller said he hasn't fired it in 4 years but he did really well with it the last time he used it. He messaged me about an hour ago and regrets selling it already. I replied that I'm 20 years older than him so I'll give him the first option on it when I'm gone.
Nice...good enough. I'd go ahead and make up a copy ramrod bayonet using the piece and the small needs aren't so bad. The bore looks like it could use a cleaning. I've never been able to figure out the Buffington sight, I'd be more comfortable with a standard sight. I guess a range report is forthcoming? I still think It's a good catch...
I'm hitting the range later this week Jim I'll write up a report right after. I have no experience with this rear sight but it seems overly complicated for a battle rifle. I possibly found an original ramrod bayo for sale at trapdoor collectors. I've sent an email and am anxiously waiting for a reply. This will leave only the sling swivel and screw to be located. I love it when a plan comes together!Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
You may be able to source that here...WTB ad...Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfoneguy
So I took the rifle completely apart for an in depth cleaning and oiling.
Several small parts are missing yet it still functions. Extractor spring plunger, pin for the ramrod retainer and one of the tiny springs that go with it. Found some rust under the lockplate. The middle band is the stacking swivel band for a carbine. I have an email out waiting for response for a ramrod bayonet. It's moving along very well.
Have been cleaning the barrel and am about half done. That hasn't been done to it in years have some pictures of the bore condition. I'm not surprised by it even dirty it showed strong but wow. Can't wait to get to the range.
Nothing wrong with that one at all.
So the rod-bayonet arrived today in good order. Some patina as expected with an item of this age. Good solid never flattened point, excellent threads on the other end and as straight as the day is was made. Took the rifle to the range on Thursday and did somewhat acceptable. I did a write up in range reports if anyone is interested.
After learning a lot about these rifles in a short time it's become apparent there are several incorrect parts on this rifle and a few missing altogether and I am hard on the trail of correcting all the mistakes I've inherited.
Right now I'm doing a barrel soak with Hoppes. Chamber plugs for 45-70 have been discontinued everywhere I looked so it was up to me to make my own. After trying several different cases I found a .243 with the neck hammered flat and a 7/32"x 11/32" O ring in the extractor groove makes an excellent water tight substitute. Will keep barrel soaking for 24 hours then scrub well and give an update afterwards.
The barrel soak went very well and the barrel is now as clean as it's ever going to be with spotless patches coming out of it. Apparently the barrel wasn't so bad perhaps because of the cleaning I gave it before taking it to the range. Although darkened the Hoppes was still see through which is the opposite of how it came out of my P14 when I soaked that. The solvent came out of that barrel looking more like mud.
Pleased with the progress so far. Another order to be placed to S & S this week for parts to make it correct and that should be close to the final order. Now I need to get bullet lube so I can start doing some loading. The gentleman came through with the primers on Saturday as he said he would so the lube is the last item needed.
That barrel looked about perfect from the beginning. Something we seldom see here...
So the little box of goodies from S & S arrived today with almost everything I need. Reproduction rear sling swivel and screw, spring plunger for extractor, spring for ramrod retainer, middle band with indent for Buffington sight, extra tall front sight and pin.
I'm going to fire it before making any front sight changes now that the rear sight is laying flat. It was about a foot high so I'm assuming it may drop by 6 inches but we'll see. With the spring plunger in place the extractor really kicks out the brass where it was gently pushing out of the chamber. After putting the block in with the spring plunger in place now I understand why so many are left out.
The pin for the rod retainer is still missing and I may have to make my own as no part suppliers have one. The top band is still incorrect but that can wait because it doesn't affect function and funds are limited.