Debating a Smith Corona 1903A3 Purchase

Hello, All! I'm looking for some guidance on a potential purchase. Namely, I'm looking for some opinions on the price.

Smith Corona M1903A3 w/ 6 Groove Barrel. Dated January 1943. Also comes with an M1905 Bayonet shortened to M1 Bayonet specifications.

I understand the six-groove barrels were only installed for a couple of months and were originally manufactured by High Standard. All the markings on the gun and the finish leads me to believe these are all original components. The stock appears to *maybe* have been cleaned/lightly sanded due to the worn stamps on the side, but I'm not entirely sure.

Shop is asking $1,500. Thoughts?

Nice "looker", that's for sure!

The rifle appears to be reasonably correct and original. The $1500 asking price is not unreasonable if it has a serviceable bore.

Good Luck!

J.B.

Lovely looking rifle, when did they swap stock pinning to the cross bolts?

Goodness, that looks like it's in fine condition. That's definitely something I'd add to my Christmas list

Check out the cutoff-- it appears to have some weld on it. I would look closely at the the receiver around the cutoff to make sure this wasn't a recovered drill rifle. Could be just the cutoff was from a drill rifle. If it was a drill rifle the 1500 would be way high of course.

After looking at the 5th photo again, you can see the area right below the rear sight and above the cutoff has been machined out to eliminate the weld. I would say this definitely was a drill rifle.

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Originally Posted by Salt Flat

After looking at the 5th photo again, you can see the area right below the rear sight and above the cutoff has been machined out to eliminate the weld. I would say this definitely was a drill rifle.

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Your response encouraged me to grab the rifle and take it down to the work bench to give it a complete clean (I ended up purchasing the rifle for $1,400). I've taken some more detailed photos of the area. Would your guess still be that it is a recovered drill rifle? Should there be anything else I should be inspecting? Any concerns, considerations, etc... if it is a recovered drill rifle? Thanks in advance!

Yes--It's definitely a recovered Drill rifle. In your last photo the area above the cutoff has been milled out to remove the weld. It is still an ok rifle, just not worth the price. I have one and like it but it doesn't really have the collectibility or value of an original as manufatured rifle. Sorry for the bad news but I think you could get a refund or negotiate a new price (1/2?) . Salt

This is what it should look like. Take this picture with you to the gun shop for comparison.

Attachment 126632

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Originally Posted by Salt Flat

This is what it should look like. Take this picture with you to the gun shop for comparison.

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Thank you for the reference and for the information. It's disheartening to hear, but I have a good relationship with the shop so I'm hoping I can make it right.

For my own edification (and so I can argue my point with the shop), can you provide some insight into the differences between the photo you supplied and the included two below? From my (untrained) eye it looks almost as if you example you provided has had *more* material removed. I can see the obvious machining marks on mine, but why the overall difference in design? I apologize for any ignorance; I'm trying to learn as much as I can!

The rifle is NOT a recovered drill rifle. The rifle simply has a battered cutoff from slamming the bolt rearward. And that's not uncommon.

You did very well and have a fine rifle!

J.B.

p.s.,

The rifle is a very desirable and valuable early production rifle and has the early style of receiver machining for the cutoff recess. The machining on Salt Flat's rifle is the later style.

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Originally Posted by John Beard

The rifle is NOT a recovered drill rifle. The rifle simply has a battered cutoff from slamming the bolt rearward. And that's not uncommon.

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Thank you very, very much for this insight!

After taking the gun apart and giving it a detailed cleaning, I took some additional photos of any markings I could find. It would appear to me that a lot of the components are Remington. As far as I know, SC components were all made in house with the exception of the barrels, correct?. Would this be indicative of an arsenal rebuild at some point in its life despite not stock marking? And can I rest peacefully tonight knowing its fairly common and acceptable to find Remington components in a SC? :lol:

Also included two photos of the "final product" post cleaning and one with my Springfield '03 for everybody's viewing pleasure.

Jeff, These rifles were deactivated by the U.S. military so they could be used for teaching purposes and drill. The deactivation involved plugging the barrel and welding it to the receiver. The cut off switch was welded in the down position which make taking the bolt out impossible. Also the firing pin tip was ground off and the firing pin hole in the face of the bolt was welded up. The weld on the cut off was done with stainless welding wire. This leaves a bright color on the receiver where the weld is ground off. So these drill rifles were used for many years until the military surplussed thousands of them in the 1990's (not certain on the years here). Anyway they were dirt cheap and some people began "reactivating " these rifles. Barrels, bolts, firing pins cutoff etc were replaced. Old cutoff had to be ground down and removed. The area around the cut off was cleaned up by grinding or like yours it was machined to get rid of the stainless welds. Some look better than others. Yours was somewhat crudely done (rough machining). Also Check the under the front of receiver to see what's left of the stainless weld in that area. Rock River arms and Gibbs Rifle Co made many faux 1903a4 sniper rifles using these drill receivers. The picture I posted shows what it looked like when manufactured. Look it at closely and compare to your photo. The original machining was done with a shaped custom cutter while the Bubba machining was done with a simple end mill cutter and remove say a 1/16 " of material. Salt Flat

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Originally Posted by Salt Flat

Jeff, These rifles were deactivated by the U.S. military so they could be used for teaching purposes and drill. The deactivation involved plugging the barrel and welding it to the receiver. The cut off switch was welded in the down position which make taking the bolt out impossible. Also the firing pin tip was ground off and the firing pin hole in the face of the bolt was welded up. The weld on the cut off was done with stainless welding wire. This leaves a bright color on the receiver where the weld is ground off. So these drill rifles were used for many years until the military surplussed thousands of them in the 1990's (not certain on the years here). Anyway they were dirt cheap and some people began "reactivating " these rifles. Barrels, bolts, firing pins cutoff etc were replaced. Old cutoff had to be ground down and removed. The area around the cut off was cleaned up by grinding or like yours it was machined to get rid of the stainless welds. Some look better than others. Yours was somewhat crudely done (rough machining). Also Check the under the front of receiver to see what's left of the stainless weld in that area. Rock River arms and Gibbs Rifle Co made many faux 1903a4 sniper rifles using these drill receivers. The picture I posted shows what it looked like when manufactured. Look it at closely and compare to your photo. The original machining was done with a shaped custom cutter while the Bubba machining was done with a simple end mill cutter and remove say a 1/16 " of material. Salt Flat

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Thank you for the follow up. After reviewing various examples of drill rifles (and re-activated ones), I think I'll have to disagree with you that this is an example of one. It would appear the very early Smith Corona 1903A3s (perhaps others as well?) differed in the receiver as John Beard has stated.

I was able to locate an example that shows an identical machining method (albeit a different rear sight installed). When compared to the Springfield 1903 (Circa 1929) I have, the design seems very similar.

The "weld" originally mentioned on the cut-off lever is not weld; upon closer inspection it's most certainly damage. I found no other evidence of any welds inside or outside of the receiver that any modifications were made to convert this to a drill rifle.

I'll keep doing some digging (I ordered Joe Poyer's book a few moments ago) to see if I can definitively reaffirm the above, but perhaps Mr. Beard has some further insight.

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Originally Posted by JeffreyJ5

Thank you very, very much for this insight!

After taking the gun apart and giving it a detailed cleaning, I took some additional photos of any markings I could find. It would appear to me that a lot of the components are Remington. As far as I know, SC components were all made in house with the exception of the barrels, correct?. Would this be indicative of an arsenal rebuild at some point in its life despite not stock marking? And can I rest peacefully tonight knowing its fairly common and acceptable to find Remington components in a SC? :lol:

Also included two photos of the "final product" post cleaning and one with my Springfield '03 for everybody's viewing pleasure.

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You have a splendid rifle. And you are correct that Smith-Corona made most of the parts. Barrels were made by High Standard and Stocks and Handguards were also made by a subcontractor.

Remington was indeed authorized to transfer some early parts to Smith-Corona. I know that stocks were transferred. And I have seen a few other small parts to include front sights. But I believe some of the Remington parts on your rifle may be replacements made by a previous owner.

Thanks again for sharing!

J.B.

John, I have re-examined the photos and with great embarrassment will switch my position. I know you have examined many many 03a3s of all types. So-- If you tell me the early SC rifles had that style of cut out machining I accept your analysis and will slowly lick the the egg off my red face. It is a very nice rifle and I am sorry Jeffery for "tainting" your thread. My input was based on the rough and unusual shape of the cutout and the damaged cutoff switch. I have a couple of reactivated 03a3s (Remington) so I am always looking . Cheers

Salt Flat,

A friend had a sign in his office, "Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is not." You have demonstrated the former, not the latter. I commend you!

J.B.

Just to add my 2 cents worth I have a similar SC which is 10,000 earlier serial number. Yes it has the deep earlier cut machining like yours. I also have a 6 groove barrel but mine is dated 2-43 as yours is 1-43 and my rifle is a little earlier than yours.

recovered drill rifle, done very nicely, but a drill rifle non the less

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Originally Posted by Chuckindenver

recovered drill rifle, done very nicely, but a drill rifle non the less

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I think we put that notion to rest. What specifics about the gun lead you to believe it's a recovered drill rifle?

look closely at the cut off, you can see the rounded edge, and were the cut off wheel they used to cut the weld hit the receiver, also, the one picture you show were the barrel meets the receiver, shows a rounded edge as well, i would bet they used a type of paint to cover those areas, since paint stripper wont harm phosphate finish, spray some on those areas and let sit a minute, see what happens. i look at more of these then just about anyone.. it was nicely done, but still a receovered drill rifle

---------- Post added at 09:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 AM ----------

id bet over the last 10 years, iv worked on, recoverd, ect more then 100 1903A3 drill rifles, iv seen some that werent even welded, some that were welded with a heavy hand, some that missed the area completely.. you can also, call the CMP and ask them for the lists of the drill rifles that were sold at auction years ago. i have that list on my old computer someplace, id bet you lunch its on that list. also noticed, weld splatter on the receiver were the trigger pin goes, shows up in one of your early pics..