Now I have three

My Rockola came in today. I now have three Carbines. It looks better in my hands than it did in the pictures. Thanks go to my lucky wife who won $6,000 playing a slot machine(my cut was $3,000) I won't be sending this back like the last one. I was surprised to see a Type IA barrel band on a 1944 Rockola, and a missing dot on the buttplate( I had never heard of it before), but I'm surprised by a lot of carbine parts.The sling is real(I think) and the oiler and magazine are both marked IS, or SI, not sure. I've wanted a Rockola or IBM for a long time. I guess the IBM is next on the list. Any comments would be greatly appreciated, especially if they point out any flaws:nono::nono:. Thanks guys!

1st,
The important question.......... What Slot was she playing ?

ETA: I'm serious, these 7 [COLOR="white"]7[/COLOR 7]'s after my username are there for a reason!

Some "Angel" slot. I play hold em, but she definitely out earned me on that one. From the pics can you guess a month for this one?

So..........
She gets the W2G and takes her cut to buy groceries and gas, And you get another Carbine?
Yep, I love her also :dancingbanana:

I'm not sure on Date. Someone may be able to help with most of the SN#.

Everything I can see is legit. Long tab magcatch, sling, CC, barrel band.,, etc.
Stock nose just showing early band use.
RMC used a lot of early parts late in to their production.

Questions: is there any marking on the frt on your frt sight?
Does trigger housing have the 9 spring cut on back magwall? Or is it a narrow back wall on both sides?
Anything left of the MR stamp on barrel band?
Swivel have aged look?

IS lobbied to drop the IW, II, IU etc markings requirement to save time. After a number of attempts it was granted that they could do so. Just a Collector thing wanting a IR oiler in their late Rock.
** Just gave IR oiler away**

You've done so much better this time around,

Congrats, Happy for you both :clap:

:lol:You always make me laugh:lol: She did the sensible thing and paid off one of HER credit cards( she knows that as soon as I croak, she gets to sell my guns anyway). So, the IS oiler isn't correct? I was guessing Inland made on the mag too. Looking down the barrel, theres a "T" on the left side of the front sight. I tried to get a pic, but my phone and this light come up empty. IDK what a 9 spring cut is. Back wall has a groove on each side. The MR is gone. There's a mark, but it doesn't look close to an M or R.

I don't think you'll need to worry about a 9 spring cut on that trigger housing... It looks very nice and legit as Mr. 777 points out. How is the flip sight marked, base and leaf?

IS who made oilers and magazines was International Silver. After they got the OK to drop the Primary code.... I (for IS) I (for Inland)= II. They just marked IS afterward.
So a IS mag and oiler is fine for your RMC.
Here's a link to mag Id's: M1 Carbine 15 rnd Magazines

Here's a pic of a M2 trigger housing with the right wall cut away and left wall having the notch for a 9 spring. (I'm just trying to be sure your TH hasn't been modified,) I would expect your TH to be a narrow rear wall type II.
See here: The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Trigger Housing Group


Your Frt sight is probably a TR, Look for a marking on your L flip leaf. Common staking by RMC......... Well, just look at these pics.

I think I found what you'll need. If not I'll follow up this weekend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GotSnlB28

How is the flip sight marked, base and leaf?

---

I only see an "S" on the left side. Nothing under or around the peepholes, or the other side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

Your Frt sight is probably a TR,

---

I looked closer at the frt sight there's an R on the right side too, but not the same lettering style as the pic you showed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

Look for a marking on your L flip leaf.

---

Just an "S" on the rear flip , there's no B-R at the peephole.

The ears on the frt sight have the line on each side of the "pin" hole, just like the pic you showed.

There's nothing close to an M-R on the band.

Riesch's 6th says, Unmarked MR, UR for 1,760,000(and up I guess) There's no comma after "unmarked" but you can't have unmarked and MR together, it doesn't make sense.

If you have a close up picture of the receiver dovetail both sides and staking it should give a good indication if the flip has been on since it left the factory. Usually they are coded base and leaf for Rockola.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

Here's a pic of a M2 trigger housing with the right wall cut away and left wall having the notch for a 9 spring. (I'm just trying to be sure your TH hasn't been modified,) I would expect your TH to be a narrow rear wall type II.
See here: The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Trigger Housing Group

---

The link you put up tells me its the grooved wall. I saw no cutout on the right side for the M2. You know stuff I don't even know to look for.

I have a better camera, just can't use it now. I hope these help. The flip sight is loose compared to my Winchester.

Rear sight is USGI. I think some sharper pictures of around the staking would help. Unless the rifle has really been detail cleaned and it's seen some use, you will see dirt, grime, oil residue around the sight and base that indicates it's been on for a long time. I don't see that in your first couple pictures but maybe the photo. Loose (original) Rock-ola coded flip sights are rare as hens teeth and usually priced accordingly if they do show up, so if it were changed it would not surprise me that an uncoded sight was used. I don't believe that CC newsletters ever documented any Rock-ola use of unmarked base + leaf flips (some unmarked leaf).

I'd guess production date ~ April/March 1944.

The unmarked band wouldn't concern me it clearly has the features of a real RMC band.
Frt sight's for RMC marked TR I've seen in 2 fonts. Milling behind the blade looks very much like pics I have of a TR vs a WRA frt sight. See attached pics. TR on top of WRA, and TR on left of WRA.

I can't find any records of RMC receiving rear sight bases or leafs from any other prime in War Baby. But do know some of their Leafs were unmarked with coded bases, it's in WB.
They had Rear Sight Base's supplied by Hemphill, who WB notes marking unknown? I'd expect these to have the Square S. Also Rear Sight bases supplied by International Silver, also noted by WB as marking unknown?. Maybe just the S on the Left ? Also a Rear Sight Leaf was supplied per WB to RMC by Precision Metal & Machine Co. with WB noting marking unknown? Maybe these were the unmarked leafs (?).

Agree your Flip is USGI. Now wondering if it was a field replacement for a damaged one (?). Might or might not explain it being loose.
Either way I'd be happy to hit for $6K, get 1/2 and own that Carbine.

IIRC your carbine SN# range was in RMC's transitional period. Take a look at this beauty owned by David B: FEATURED CARBINE : ROCK-OLA 4546450 - The Carbine Collector's Club

Safe Weekend and Always Max Bet !

I started looking very closely while trying to take these pics, then I tried cleaning the staining off the space below the peepsight. I couldn't get much off, but thought I might see the top of a letter coming out. I need some small wire brush or something. WD 40 only worked a little bit. Now, I'm not sure if there isn't letters under the gunk. I hope these pics help more. I goofed and double attached some and still can't find the one I thought showed the top of a letter. As always, Thanks guys for your help. It is kinda fun though.

I'm no expert but I definitely would not take a wire brush to it, might damage the original patina. Just my opinion. Wire brushes and old original firearm finishes never go together

I am always amazed at how different pictures can look. RR, definitely avoid a brush or anything like that. Bore cleaner should soften it but will take some time. I am at the point now, I clean them as little as possible but if it's thick enough to obscure the marking I understand the desire to uncover it. A few weeks ago I bought a loose flip sight that was really gunky. Zooming in with a camera there was only a light indication of a mark. After using some hoppes on a q-tip I found the leaf was marked W-I.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GotSnlB28

I am always amazed at how different pictures can look. RR, definitely avoid a brush or anything like that. Bore cleaner should soften it but will take some time. I am at the point now, I clean them as little as possible but if it's thick enough to obscure the marking I understand the desire to uncover it. A few weeks ago I bought a loose flip sight that was really gunky. Zooming in with a camera there was only a light indication of a mark. After using some hoppes on a q-tip I found the leaf was marked W-I.

---

I took another look at Charlie's pic of the B-R leaf and I was looking lower than that. There's no mark where a B-R should be on that leaf, and of course, both of you are right about a wire brush. Sometimes I get so focused on one thing, I forget the consequences of doing it. Thanks for the reminder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

They had Rear Sight Base's supplied by Hemphill, who WB notes marking unknown? I'd expect these to have the Square S.

---

Correction to above, It was Lyman that used the Sq S. Hemphill the rounded S.

To uncover grimed over markings I've also used Hoppes #9. Dabbing the area then covering with plastic to keep from drying out. Have also used Lacquer Thinner with good results, just being careful not to get it where I don't want it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

Correction to above, It was Lyman that used the Sq S. Hemphill the rounded S.

To uncover grimed over markings I've also used Hoppes #9. Dabbing the area then covering with plastic to keep from drying out. Have also used Lacquer Thinner with good results, just being careful not to get it where I don't want it.

---

So, those pics don't tell us anything that we don't already know? It was cloudy yesterday when I was trying to take those. The sun popped out for 3 minutes and those pics are a little fuzzy. I'm becoming convinced it's a replacement sight, but when I get time(I'm at work now) I'll try using some hoppes. I think I have a bottle around here somewhere.

Zoomed waaay up on the side of the base I 'think' I see letter impressions.
But it's not uncommon for me to see things :madsmile:
One thing, it sure seems to appear that sight has been there a long time.
Maybe years of dried Cosmo/Oil/ RLO filled in the letters. We've seen it before.
And unmarked Leafs were reported, not common but were reported.

Does your camera have a Macro setting? (a little flower symbol) I get my best minute details using that setting. A tip from my ole buddy Harlan.

The camera is a FujiPix S3200. I've looked on their website and they don't even list it. It is 11 years old. It did take a pic of the T on the front sight. There's an R there also, but the glare is hiding it. No luck on getting the sight clean, but I just don't see any marking there. I'll keep trying.:surrender: Charlie, is there a reason you think March/April 44 is when it was made? You know much more than I do, but 2nd block Rockola's were from Nov 43 to Mar 44, and this one seems to be right in the middle of the 200,000. Did they not make all 200,000? I know many times serial numbers were not assembled sequentially. If you could help improve my knowledge, it would be appreciated. Side note, my wife heard me talk about your reference to the War Baby book, and wanted to get it for me as a "love gift", Until she saw the price. I guess I'll have to get it myself.:move eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SRiverrat11

I've looked on their website and they don't even list it

---

I looked too, and was surprised their website skipped over your model. I have a Fuji but don't use it very often because I'm not real familiar with the menus on it. Mine has macro and "super" macro settings. I looked at the manual for the model numbers just under, and just over yours - I bet either one is close enough to work for you. Here's a link to the page I was on. - Bob

https://fujifilm-x.com/en-us/support/manual/finepix-s/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SRiverrat11

is there a reason you think March/April 44 is when it was made?

---

I used fellow CCCF member Jack P's (Algorithm) Spread Sheet PDF put together from all know information on known serial numbered Carbines.
I clicked on the closest Rock Ola serial number to yours that had a date.
Be sure to read the Spread Sheet on how the Data is collected.

Spread Sheet:
M1 Carbine Serial Number Spread Sheets - The Carbine Collector's Club - Page 1

Rock Ola:
http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNL...20Rock-Ola.pdf

It's a great piece of work JP put together......... :cheers:

Cheers,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by USGI

I looked too, and was surprised their website skipped over your model. I have a Fuji but don't use it very often because I'm not real familiar with the menus on it. Mine has macro and "super" macro settings. I looked at the manual for the model numbers just under, and just over yours - I bet either one is close enough to work for you. Here's a link to the page I was on. - Bob

https://fujifilm-x.com/en-us/support/manual/finepix-s/

---

Thank you Bob. Your link and suggestion took me to S3900 which is also the manual for the S3200. It told me what I've been doing wrong. It says to use the macro setting with a tripod(I don't have a tripod)or else your pic will be blurry, which is what I keep having happen. The macro/flower button has been there the whole time. I just didn't see it. Charlie asked me if I had one 5 years ago when I got my Winchester. I didn't think I did. Hopefully, new knowledge brings better results. Thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

I used fellow CCCF member Jack P's (Algorithm) Spread Sheet PDF put together from all know information on known serial numbered Carbines.
I clicked on the closest Rock Ola serial number to yours that had a date.
Be sure to read the Spread Sheet on how the Data is collected.

Spread Sheet:
M1 Carbine Serial Number Spread Sheets - The Carbine Collector's Club - Page 1

Rock Ola:
http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNL...20Rock-Ola.pdf

It's a great piece of work JP put together......... :cheers:

Cheers,

---

Thank you Charlie, that's some really useful information. There's a carbine 147 numbers before mine. 4,585,696 mine is 4,585,843. I'll try to get the rear sight cleaner so I can take better pictures with my newfound knowledge of my camera.

Tried again with the camera steadied. Do you have the link so I can copy Data sheets again? I moved back to Wyoming since I bought the Winchester and lost the extras I had.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SRiverrat11

Data sheets

---

River Rat,
If your talking about the Carbine Club Data Sheets that you fill out the link is below.
There are now 2 pages, and videos available to help you fill them out.

Carbine Club Data Sheets - The Carbine Collector's Club

Any submitted are appreciated,

The cameras usually have a "Super Macro" setting that you get by just holding down the Macro button. It can be 4-5" from the object but anything done free hand and not blurry is pure luck. Most of these cameras are returned because they are just too complicated to use. The Cannon manuals are books.

I was looking......again, at the rear sight, I got down to seeing minute striations from machining I guess. no letters, but I was also looking at the barrel band. Is that a faint "R"?

My understanding is if it has an R, then it should either have a U or an M in front of it. I see the area you are referring to and it does look like a letter R, even kind of looks like another letter was before it but is way more obscured than the letter R. But overall in my opinion, I don't think it is a marking, I think it's just the way the metal is. But the more I look at it, the more it looks like an obscured letter U before the R haha.

Now I'm seeing a faint letter M before your letter R on the barrel band haha. I'm starting to think that is a marking. I looked at your picture on a better screen and it actually does look like an M and an R. I think you're on to something RR. Charlie already mentioned earlier if anything was left of your MR marking and I think that IS what is left

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jond41403

Now I'm seeing a faint letter M before your letter R on the barrel band haha. I'm starting to think that is a marking. I looked at your picture on a better screen and it actually does look like an M and an R. I think you're on to something RR. Charlie already mentioned earlier if anything was left of your MR marking and I think that IS what is left

---

Thanksjond, I thought I also saw 2 diagonal lines going down toward each other but I didn't want to say without someone kinda also seeing it. Really lightly struck, then damaged from use to obscure it more. As many problems I've had with my camera, this pic I took with my phone.

Yes that's what sticks out to me as well with the letter M, you can see it coming down to make a v in the middle of the letter.