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I picked up another 1903 sporter a while back.
This time, it's rebarreled to 458 Winchester Magnum.
The maximum pressures of 30-06 and 458 are within a couple thousand PSI, or closer depending on the measurement method.
From a felt recoil viewpoint, 458 seems pretty dang hot for the 1903 action.
Anyone have any thoughts on that? Ever seen one?
Yes have fired one once, not pleasant and not a go to range gun. Had the opportunity to try it a second time later that year and politely refused. That rifle wasn't used again after that 2nd time and was sold within 2 years time.
Your dealing with a 45-70 size 500gr+ bullet travelling at over 2100fps so hell yeah it's going to kick. The average 30-06 load is a 150gr to 180gr bullet leaving the barrel at higher velocity but with 1/3 of the 458's mass. Very different animals
I shot lots of 45/70 and it wasn't bad. I like the big guns at the time but still didn't build a .458 for exactly the reasons mentioned. They can be punishing. Unless you need it for cape buffalo, I wouldn't have one. There are better platforms than an M1903, too light and too vicious. It wants a heavy platform to absorb recoil.
Sounds like the safety factor is at an acceptable level.
I can't imagine I'd spend much time shooting the rifle anyway at $5/round but good to know I could. Might have to pick up a box and fire one off just to say I have.
Thanks for the input, guys!
I felt more comfortable shooting my friends 45/70 in 336 Marlin than I did my own 444 Marlin in 336 by the 5th round out of it you just wanted to put the rifle down.
Of my friends 460 WM after 2 rounds one had reached the limit plus I once shot it from a bench rest so I could say I had done it! But I'm not keen to reacquaint my self with it anytime soon.
I have four Remingtons chambered for belted cartridges: A 1903 in .358 Norma Magnum and A3's chambered in .300 Winchester Magnum, .30/.338 Magnum, and .338 Winchester Magnum---no .458. I don't hunt anymore but do take one or another to the range occasionally. But, when I do, it's usually a pretty short day!
In the late 1960's, a friend "needed" a .458 so I got a Mauser barreled action for him from the old Herter's outfit. While in the process of putting it together for him, I set it in a scrap military stock and fired a 510 gr. soft point factory load. I then took 2 aspirins and laid down!
Pshaw. Bolt-actions are so old-fashioned.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...olvxh8aa-1.jpg
Back during the late 1950's and 1960's, Maynard Buehler claimed his scope mounts would hold their zero no matter what caliber. His photos in the American Rifleman and other shooting magazines showed his alter US Enfield 1917 with a 18 inch barrel chambered in 505, magazine held two rounds. After shooting this Enfield 505 the scope still held with coming looseAttachment 127394Attachment 127395
photo show a 30-05 and 505 Gibbs
Yes, I do believe I'll enjoy the idea of having a 458 much more than actually shooting one!Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPahl
You can always load the .458 case with 300 grain Hornady jacketed soft points and a stout .45/70 smokeless load intended for modern rifles.
That would give you a powerful, yet tolerable & affordable, hunting round for your 1903 Springfield.
Years ago my friend bought a Ruger No 1 single shot in 458 Win, always down-loaded it including lead bullets too.
He never fired a factory 458 cartridge.
Also fired another friends Ruger No 1 single shot in 375 H&H with reloads equal to factory loads and really liked
that rifle, Wish I could find the 100 yard target
Comparisons ~
Pic #1 L-R 458 Win Mag 500gn, 444 Marlin 265gn, 44 Mag 240gn.
Pic #2 L-R MkVII 303, 505 Gibbs, 460 Weatherby Mag, 444 Marlin.
I took a better pic of my Weatherby cartridges missing is the 30/378 and 220 Rocket I believe the 224WM is now also discontinued.
Pic #3 L-R (.22 rimfire scale) 460WM, 416WM, 378WM, 375WM, 340WM, 300WM, 7mm WM, 270WM, 257WM, 240WM, 224WM (.22Rimfire scale)
I got a Marlin 1895 in 450 Marlin/Hornaday in a trade. The cartridge is interesting. It has wide "Magnum" belt and the performance of a "hot" 45-70. The belt keeps you from a loading in a Trapdoor Springfield (or 458 Win Mag). It does nothing more than a Ruger #1 or Marlin 1895 45-70 loading (or handloading) but it was Lawyer safe. Not a fun rifle to shoot, but if you had to hang out in Brown Bear country it would be a nice thing to have. Getting ammo could be tough (as could be +P 45-70), but since it kicked so hard, a couple of boxes should be plenty. The flex-tip bullets get you a bit more range, so a 200 yard rifle with the 325 grain was certainly possible. As said above, not a range rifle but as a big game taker, it would have been plenty. I traded it to a guy that loved lever actions.
Dave
Cinders, your photos of the cartridges really are high quality
RS
The 458 Win Mag has more apparent recoil than any other rifle I know of, and I avoid them like the plague. When I wanted a big bore rifle, I built a 416 Rigby on a standard Mauser action just to prove I could do it (as Rigby did). Mine holds 3-rounds. It feeds and ejects flawlessly. I did make one error. I forgot to add the lead weights to attain a 10-lb weight. My 416 weighs 7 lbs, and it is a hoss to hold on to when fired. I have no sane use for it. I blame Gimp for egging me on. We dreamed of going on a Duga' Boy hunt. Sadly, it never happened. Now I use the rifle to amuse myself when the young bucks think their 12-gauge has a ton of recoil. No one but me has ever fired it more than once. The trigger guard does serve a vicious rap to the finger next to your trigger finger. Factory rounds are a tad expensive, but I keep a box of solids around just for grins. I handload cast bullets for most shooting. At 120grs of powder per round, it isn't cheap to shoot; but it will give you a sense of survival afterwards.
That about sums it up for me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
Your use of basically “you think that’s recoil?” Is about as close to a good purpose I’ll have as well.
Nothing wrong with having something just because you want, though!
That thought process led me to buying one of the original Barrett 50 cals back in the early 90's. I also bought a can of Argentine 50 cal ammo. It was a clip fed bolt action model. I installed a $1000 Springfield scope on it, which lasted about ten rounds. I only shot it prone, and it would set me back about ten inches and blow off my shooting glasses and my hat (muzzle brake). That rifle spent ten years under the guest bedroom bed before I remembered I owned it and subsequently sold that butt kicking monster. I sold it for twice what I paid for it. That can of ammo was almost full when I sold it (paid $7/round). I got over the need for a 50cal pretty rickety tick. Like maybe the very first round? Weird how that works.Quote:
Originally Posted by rcathey
We installed a #32 scope from a #4 "T" Lee Enfield on a single shot AN M2 we put together up here decades ago and it did the same. Separated the lenses inside I guess. After using the M2 .50 cal, I couldn't get the need into me to shoot a shoulder controlled .50 cal...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
I have three .458 Wnchester Magnums. The first I had built a Interarms Whitworth X Mauser as a backup gun for bear hunting. The other two are a Ruger No. 1 single shot and a Colt Sauer. I generally load them down to .45-70 loadings to keep from being kick to death. LOL.
The US Army used to have .50 cal sniper rifles. So many guys developed detached retinas that the Army got rid of that gun and the whole notion of .50 rifles. Detached retina is not a joke and a sniper was done in the program with that condition. As best I know the .338 Mag is the sniper round in common use today.
I detached a retina earlier this year and I can attest to the fact that it is no joke. Mine was caused by age and wear not heavy recoil but the end result is the same. I now have a small cabbage that rolls about in my eye with each movement. When target shooting I have to pause and wait for the cabbage to settle down to the bottom of the eye in order to obtain a clear sight picture. I can understand how it would be impossible for a sniper to function with this condition. I will be getting an operation early next year to clear the eye which the optometrist is not keen on. Hopefully all works well.
Oh, heck no!Quote:
Originally Posted by MAC702
Many 458's are built on '98 style Mauser actions.
Ruger, Remington and CZ built many 458's, too.
The '03 action is comparable in weight to the Mausers. Getting a bbl that is heavy enough, and a stock that is substantial enough, with recoil bolts and a decellerator pad, is paramount.
I have a Rem 700, custom shop 458 Win mag that has been to Africa 5 times ( not with me) and has taken many head of big game. This gun weights all of ten pounds and is not unpleasant to shoot with my reloads.
Think a light, lever action guide gun in 45-70+. or a 12 gage shotgun with high brass slug loads...those shotguns are always way too light and recoil is heavy with those guns.
Oh that’s not so bad. I had one of those Marlin’s and shot a “bear load” 45-70 in it. That combo meant business but it wasn’t shoulder dislocating or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
TBH with the hot loads I was putting through my 444, 240gn Hornady HP @2400Fps for 3070fpe really made for lively recoil.
My friend hot loaded his 45/70 with 300gn projies but loaded the powder to nearly the top of the case and compressed loaded it with the projie, I stayed well away from him when we shot together the Marlins lock up is not a real super strong affair.
I've seen where the U.S have trialed the 375 Chey Tac and the 408 Chey Tac have they been adopted by the service as sniper rifles!