Commercially Retailed L96A1 Rifle

I recently obtained in Germany what was not only a bit of a mystery to myself, but also to Steve, who I had consulted for verification. The weird aspect of it was that the rifle is military L96A1 marked, but has a 90 PM serial number, that Steve told me:

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90 PM 0704 was supplied as part of a batch of 4 rifles titled "job 832" and sent to Mr. W. Spindler 1-3-1990

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Being a bit clueless on this information I researched this name a bit, only to find a gun dealer in Germany named Wilhelm Spindler. Calling him answered the question - he was very proud in that he told me he was the very first person to get an export permit for these rifles to be retailed in Germany and had since then frequently imported AI rifles to Germany.


While this is a bit in contrast to the fact that AI never offered PM/L96 to the general public (until 2000 with the AW), it therefore indeed seems that this particular rifle must had been one of the very first ones ever sold commercially, and this one even to abroad.


I had wondered whether this rifle came with scope or without. Mr. Spindler had told me that there was no rule - either with or without scope (+ mount). Therefore I actually had considered putting the Military L96A1 scope I have (currently sitting on the Police PM rifle that I own) on this rifle, once I instead get ahold of a Police contract 2.5-10x scope on mount that I can use on my Police rifle.

Congrats! What an excellent and unique find!
longebow

I forgot to mention: on the left side of the receiver just at the very front (where the barrel begins) one can see the "SPINDLER" importer stamp.


Secondly, what I noticed when comparing it with my Police-PM rifle that is based on a L96A1 marked receiver too: the Police-PM rifle has all markings stamped inside milled out portions (I posted this rifle here: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=72831 ). Back then I was told by Steve that these were military L96A1 actions that got the [military] serial milled out and a PM serial added instead. What I didn't notice back then was the fact that basically all receiver markings, not only the L96A1 with NSN, but also the Accuracy International markings, were milled out and stamped in the milled out parts. I wonder why?



For the serials on this rifle though it is very different. None of the parts where you can find markings are applied in former milled out areas.


Edit: Steve was kind enough to let me know the total of four rifles for Spindler Arms in Germany were consecutive serials, being 90 PM 0704 to 90 PM 0707. Hence mine is the first of the four, so maybe I could now actually call it the very first commercially sold AI L96A1 marked rifle ever :D.

Well done a great addition to the collection

A lovely rare rifle

Congratulations!! Beautiful rifle!!

I've imported two to the USA along with a few earlier PM's. One is 89PMxxxx and the other 91PMxxxx. Both marked L96A1 with the commercial serial number range. There were 13 more imported many years ago by Gunsite in Arizona that were former Irish police issue of which I know one went back to the UK since I was the exporter so there are more than a dozen in the hands of American collectors. The ones you won't find on the commercial market have the military serial numbers. The vast majority of those were destroyed by the MoD.

Promo,
Nice one mate. ALWAYS good to get provenance if its available on a rare rifle, and that certainly is in the circumstances. Just sold my PM, probably a mistake, just got a tad boring at long range when it was ALWAYS hitting the target :lol::lol::thup:

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

I've imported two to the USA along with a few earlier PM's. One is 89PMxxxx and the other 91PMxxxx. Both marked L96A1 with the commercial serial number range. There were 13 more imported many years ago by Gunsite in Arizona that were former Irish police issue of which I know one went back to the UK since I was the exporter so there are more than a dozen in the hands of American collectors. The ones you won't find on the commercial market have the military serial numbers. The vast majority of those were destroyed by the MoD.

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I was lucky enough to acquire one of the 13 Irish police issue rifles that Brian references above. It appears to be a twin to your rifle Promo. It is 90 PM 0697 A and has identical markings as yours. It has the whirlybird flash hider and came with a green S&B 6x42 scope. It has the Gunsite import marking. I've had it quite a while and have been meaning to post some pictures.

I too would love to see a sub forum for the L96A1 rifles if that would be possible.

Nice rifle and a great find Promo!!

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Originally Posted by Brian B

I was lucky enough to acquire one of the 13 Irish police issue rifles that Brian references above. It appears to be a twin to your rifle Promo. It is 90 PM 0697 A and has identical markings as yours.

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Having spoken with Steve he told me that the 12 previous serials are Irish contract rifles. So yours fit perfectly in. And of course is in Police configuration.


@Brian Dick: yeah, but all of the rifles you had mentioned were Police rifles, therefore not commercial! So I still claim that mine is the first commercially sold L96A1 rifle ever made :D

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Originally Posted by Promo

Having spoken with Steve he told me that the 12 previous serials are Irish contract rifles. So yours fit perfectly in. And of course is in Police configuration.


@Brian Dick: yeah, but all of the rifles you had mentioned were Police rifles, therefore not commercial! So I still claim that mine is the first commercially sold L96A1 rifle ever made :D

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:)

Thanks for the additional information. Is "Steve" Steve Houghton?

I wonder if your barrel is original to the rifle?

Maybe the first commercial sale in Europe? It's all in the serial numbers. Police or military. Imagine the MoD rifles that got the gas axe? Sad.

I had a 91 dated rifle, identical to the one in the original post, complete with the single chamber muzzle brake.The barrel would appear to have been correct for the time

Mine now resides in the US

Excellent catch Georg! One incredibly rare rifle...

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Originally Posted by Brian B

I was lucky enough to acquire one of the 13 Irish police issue rifles that Brian references above. It appears to be a twin to your rifle Promo. It is 90 PM 0697 A and has identical markings as yours.

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Would you elaborate whether the markings on your rifle are stamped within a recess?

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Originally Posted by Brian B

Is "Steve" Steve Houghton?

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Yes.

Hi Promo,

The markings on my rifle are NOT stamped within a recess. Thanks for the clarification on "Steve".

Brian B

I‘d btw highly appreciate if you would do a thread on your Irish contract rifle with pictures since I‘d love to see it, and I‘m sure much more others would enjoy seeing it themselves.

What happened to the Irish contract rifles? Is there a chance of them coming onto the private market one day or are they headed for distraction at the end of their army careers?

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Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne

What happened to the Irish contract rifles? Is there a chance of them coming onto the private market one day or are they headed for distraction at the end of their army careers?

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I did some research in 2004 regarding what Lee Enfield's the Garda owned; it appears they took in some 53 No.4's during the 1950's & early 60's but then destroyed a quantity in 1978 for fear of attack on their armoury by PIRA. I believe from some accounts gleamed from the IDF these were dumped at sea!
They also sold a quantity to a UK dealer in 1982; I did wonder if this was to Armalon?

It begs the question; did Ireland sign up to that UN clause to destroy surplus weapons rather than sell them abroad?

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Originally Posted by Strangely Brown

I did some research in 2004 regarding what Lee Enfield's the Garda owned; it appears they took in some 53 No.4's during the 1950's & early 60's but then destroyed a quantity in 1978 for fear of attack on their armoury by PIRA. I believe from some accounts gleamed from the IDF these were dumped at sea!
They also sold a quantity to a UK dealer in 1982; I did wonder if this was to Armalon?

It begs the question; did Ireland sign up to that UN clause to destroy surplus weapons rather than sell them abroad?

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Mick

I understand the UN agreement is for military weapons, not Police.

British Police adhere to what was ACPO guidance (Now National Police Chief's Council - NPCC) which says police firearms should be destroyed when no longer used.

As we know, this hasn't always been adhered to and it is guidance, not law.

I would imagine the Garda have their own rules.

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Originally Posted by Roy W

Mick

I understand the UN agreement is for military weapons, not Police.

British Police adhere to what was ACPO guidance (Now National Police Chief's Council - NPCC) which says police firearms should be destroyed when no longer used.

As we know, this hasn't always been adhered to and it is guidance, not law.

I would imagine the Garda have their own rules.

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Roy thanks for the confirmation on that; I had wrongly assumed it applied to all government departments in the UK and assumed Ireland was the same.

As well as any PM rifles used by the Garda, didn't the Irish Defence Forces/Army not also use the L96? (is this what they referred to as their AI92 rifle?)

There are a fair few "AI" serialled little green S&B 6x42 scopes around that are usually referenced being as ex-Irish Army so does that not indicate that the rifles to which they once belonged have been chopped up but the scopes released onto the open market?

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Originally Posted by desperatedan

As well as any PM rifles used by the Garda, didn't the Irish Defence Forces/Army not also use the L96? (is this what they referred to as their AI92 rifle?)

There are a fair few "AI" serialled little green S&B 6x42 scopes around that are usually referenced being as ex-Irish Army so does that not indicate that the rifles to which they once belonged have been chopped up but the scopes released onto the open market?

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I believe the Irish scopes were sold to the US Gunsite without scopes, that's how the 'Irish scopes' came onto the UK market.

The Irish ones have a different reticle to the UK ones, which is how to spot the difference.

The rifles imported via Gunsite to the USA had the green scopes replaced by AI with new black ones if memory serves.

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

The rifles imported via Gunsite to the USA had the green scopes replaced by AI with new black ones if memory serves.

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Mine came with a green S&B 6x42 but I haven't really seen others to know what scope they had when they hit the market. Anyone else have one of the Gunsite import rifles?

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Originally Posted by Roy W

Mick

I understand the UN agreement is for military weapons, not Police.

British Police adhere to what was ACPO guidance (Now National Police Chief's Council - NPCC) which says police firearms should be destroyed when no longer used.

As we know, this hasn't always been adhered to and it is guidance, not law.

I would imagine the Garda have their own rules.

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Thanks for the correction, I thought it was gov. bodies not just military.

Does any one know what markings these Irish PMs have? I believe they referred to them as the AI96. Specification wise they have early AW style single chamber muzzle breaks, but I’m not sure if this applies to all of them? Additionally I haven’t seen photos of them having L96 type irons.

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Originally Posted by Roy W

I believe the Irish scopes were sold to the US Gunsite without scopes, that's how the 'Irish scopes' came onto the UK market.

The Irish ones have a different reticle to the UK ones, which is how to spot the difference.

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Presumably you mean the rifles were sold without scopes.

Do we know if these were ex Irish Army rifles rather the ex Garda Police ones?

I’ve a few scopes and yes the graticle/reticle is different to the UK L13.

I've asked the owner of the one I exported back to the UK in 2005 if it has the standard FE and green or black scope. I think it does, but it's been so long ago that I don't trust my memory. I'm sure I was told by Tom Irwin many years ago that the scopes were replaced in Portsmouth before export to the USA but could be wrong. I've only examined a couple of the Irish police rifles. I've never owned one of my own. They are way out of my budget now and probably never will have a chance to own one. I do have one of ten Australian SR98 AW rifles imported in the early 2000's when AI still had an office in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. It's a lovely rifle and one of only two modern tactical rifles I own, the other being the trusty Remington M24 which is an absolute hammer too.

I got email from my friend in France this morning along with a couple of pictures. His rifle is identical to Brian's with the green 6x S&B so I stand corrected. I know that the rifle was imported that way as it belonged to a famous gun writer over here who was the original purchaser.

Visiting the original importer today was quite cool - I bought all remaining AI parts he has had, two AI mounts (26mm and 30mm), a sunshield with honeycomb and an extractor. Learnt that he „invented“ the honeycomb and AI was buying those from him. Also he showed me a picture of IWA 1990 where he exhibited AI rifles. Since IWA was usually held in March and the picture he had showed me was showing two rifles (maybe he had all four there?) it could very well be my rifle was exhibited there too. Aside of the black scope visible on one rifle, note the green scope mount with large thumbscrews in the display under it.