Pattern 37 Gear

Most of this I acquired over the last week. Two items I've had for a while, the Utility Pouch and the Holster. I have two others but don't have access to them at the moment. The bayonet frog and the entrenching tool with cover. I have two other pieces coming, the second Utility Pouch with attached strap and the Yoke to finish the set. All are WWII marked with the exception of the L straps which I suspect are postwar but unmarked.

I need the two brace straps and possibly the brace extensions. Not sure if they were used with the basic set. Can't find WWII dated in good condition. Most of this I have appears to have never been issued. The L straps are the only things that have seen use.

Considering stuffing them with newspapers to hold the shape. Can the print damage the interiors in any way?

Large Pack Economy Version

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../O1ikzyG-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../1hJngvk-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ENO260V-1.jpg

Large Pack Standard Version

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../DEOmcvZ-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../sFvSzz7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../aJiO8Ab-1.jpg

MK III Basic Pouch

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../g9b7zkg-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../mYFlmyx-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ieL86be-1.jpg

Canteen Cover and Canteen

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../rne5696-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../KqXg8aE-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../9Op98jv-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../mloflsg-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../6i4w10l-1.jpg

Cross Braces

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../bSblh2D-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../xcFQeut-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../tJePUAw-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Tm0EqUO-1.jpg

Haversack (small pack) With L Straps

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../j9D6R9y-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../MDfFWO7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../WH5ZtKj-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../OIprWjM-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../kLSXryS-1.jpg

Belt with Basic Pouches

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../vFrOovB-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Ip7wZVa-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ZL8ynKH-1.jpg

Utility Pouch

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../RXNKpZv-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../vwTtfVD-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../MuZRuqW-1.jpg

Holster (Canadian)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../jPTnADl-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../wDwZAej-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../FqxgLc9-1.jpg

Nice gear. As far as newspaper stuffing, I'd be concerned with not only the ink, but the acid in the paper itself. Others will know better, but I'd be inclined to at least put the newspaper in plastic bags if you go that route.

Yeah, I wouldn't use newspaper.

Ask friends etc., to save old bubble wrap and other packaging they put in Amazon delivery boxes etc., and use that. Or just any old t-shirts or old tea towels etc bought cheap from a charity shop.

Bubble wrap, that's a great idea. Thanks.

I have the complete set minus a few of the specialty pouches on the way now. Have to dig out the two items I have squirreled away somewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Economy Version

---

The belt looks like one of "economy versions" as well which don't seem that common on the collector's market.

Indian 37 Pattern web gear is about and one normally finds that the person selling doesn't realise that it is Indian. The colour and style of weave is slightly different and, unsurprisingly, they have Indian manufacturers markings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flying10uk

The belt looks like one of "economy versions" as well which don't seem that common on the collector's market.

---

Not an economy belt, they have the belt end sewn on, this still has the brass ends. It does have the separate strip for the keepers which was made to allow companies that couldn't do the weaving to make them. So it's modified but not one of the true economy ones.

If you need anything here on this site, they have a bit. I can get it and send it...if you like. Dress and Field Kit

I don't see anything there at present but thanks.

I went and just bought the Bren magazines for the pouches. More authentic, they were available although I doubt they are WWII era.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Not an economy belt

---

The Karkee Web website suggests otherwise. Pattern 1937 Web Equipment

3x 37 Pattern "economy" belts are shown all made using different manufacturing techniques/methods.

And it STILL is not an economy belt. Now I suppose we could debate what is economy measures all day which would be pointless. This belt has one non-standard feature not done for economy but so manufacturers without the capacity to weave the hook openings could still manufacture the belts. All brass fittings are present. True economy belts used less metal and steel fittings rather than brass. It was to save war materials and this practice started in 1943. This is a 1941 belt. Only two companies had the ability to integral weave the belts, so these belts are not uncommon either, this is standard early war production for all companies besides Mills and M Wright and Sons. These contracts were awarded starting in 1939 as the war started and Mills and M Wright couldn't meet demand.

I got a big roll of bubble wrap and packed a few of the haversacks. They look good. Not exactly cheap but for $20 I can have nice display pieces. I did two and it looks like I have enough for two more, maybe three. I'm going to use plastic grocery bags also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

And it STILL is not an economy belt. Now I suppose we could debate what is economy measures all day which would be pointless. This belt has one non-standard feature not done for economy but so manufacturers without the capacity to weave the hook openings could still manufacture the belts. All brass fittings are present. True economy belts used less metal and steel fittings rather than brass. It was to save war materials and this practice started in 1943. This is a 1941 belt. Only two companies had the ability to integral weave the belts, so these belts are not uncommon either, this is standard early war production for all companies besides Mills and M Wright and Sons. These contracts were awarded starting in 1939 as the war started and Mills and M Wright couldn't meet demand.

---

I haven't just, recently, started collecting militataria items or 37 Pattern Webbing. Clearly your definition of an "economy 37 Pattern belt" is completely different to mine.

You are assuming that the belt has to have all of the features that you mention to make it an "economy belt" but I do not believe this to be the case and the 2nd to last example on the Karkee Web website page is a good example. It has all the features of a standard 37 Pattern belt but because it is made out of 3 short lengths of belt sown together, this is what makes it one of the "economy versions", i.e. more than one version of the "economy belt" with differing features.

Again, if you feel the need to call it an economy belt even though it does not have a single economy measure in it, be my guest. I will not. It is standard production for all but two manufactures of these belts. My source is not an internet source but a well-researched book which I recommended on this sight several months ago. This does not have steel fittings to replace the more needed brass. It does not have sewn ends to the buckles to reduce the amount of steel used. It does not have fabric replacing the brass or steel sleeves and it is not short pieces of belt leftovers sewn into one. It is AGAIN standard production for all but two manufacturers of these belts and the economy measures did not begin until 1943. Economy means to save something, money, materials, etc. This practice was to allow more manufacturers to produce the belts. My source isn't a website with dead links and references that go nowhere. It is a well-researched and illustrated book that I recommended on this site several months ago.

I assume nothing, one economy measure would be enough to call it an economy belt. This is not economy measure, it's standard production.

This is a pointless argument.

Brace straps came yesterday. The weird thing is, I got two complete sets of them. I thought I was getting one and was happy because the pair cost less than buying one from England and that was before the shipping.

They can be used in a variety of ways but this is one used early in the war when traveling. This is the large pack. They did not do this later in the war as transportation by trucks became more common. They just threw everything in the trucks.

Bren magazines are due to arrive tomorrow.

One thing I didn't comment on that I am really impressed with this set up is the Bren pouches. I did not realize that everyone carried two of these with four magazines in them for the Bren gunners. Seems a very effective way to carry a lot of ammo into the field.

Created a question, however. What happened to all the spent magazines? Was it practice to police them up during the battle, after the battle or did they just get left behind? I can't imagine them policeing them up during a battle but if they were on the offensive or defensive and moving, I assume a lot were left behind.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../gTirY2Q-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../qmECiOM-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../0XDRedq-1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I assume a lot were left behind.

---

Only in peacetime are we anal about that sort of thing, generally. Yes everyone carried two and doubled past the Bren position dropping off the mags and then on to the attack position. Since more were available later there was no worry at that time Follow up troops policed the area they might be reclaimed then.

Very nice set. I believe I remember you posting a cooler Swiss mountain troop pack set some years back. Been looking for one ever sense. You have me wanting to dig my pattern 37 stuff out and stuff it with bubble wrap.

The bubble wrap does a nice job for display. This pack however is not quite full enough of it to do the helmet justice. The weight squishes it just a bit. I have made up my mind to save all the packing materials and plastic bags I get from now on to fill these things up. They look so much better not all crushed and smashed.

I have not seen a Swiss pack like that one in a long time. But then I haven't been actively looking either. eBay is your most likely friend.

The Bren magazines arrived today along with the bracing extensions and the second set of L straps. I realized I am still missing the L strap buckles, forgot about them so ordered them tonight.

The Bren magazines are covered with cosmoline so it will be a while until I can get them in the pouches.

One is a WWII magazine, 1942, the other three have no dates. All are marked with the broad arrow. I need to research them a bit to see what I have. I also have to figure out how to get them apart to clean the grease out of the insides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

how to get them apart

---

Bottom slides off and the springs will come out...You'll see.

Not quite. I did mess with one. Slide it back till it hit the half moons and then it stopped. I have since read you have to tip it somehow at this point which I did not do. Do I tip the bottom plate, it seemed very tight still at this point. Or do I tip the inside somehow?

I must have misunderstood, does your mag not look like this?

Yes but it stops sliding at the two indentations. I’m going to try flipping it when I get home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

it stops sliding at the two indentations

---

Try keeping your punch stuck in a bit longer, push the distance plate away until you're clear.

Yes I would keep the punch pushed in a little longer, even angled following the base plate as it slides off. Doing that it should come off fairly easily and not hang up as bad. I could be wrong but I imagine that's what those two little indentations are designed to do, stop the base plate from walking off by catching the distance plate in case that detent gets stuck on the pressed in position.hth

OK, kind of funny but not funny. I had what I call a stroke moment with these magazines. I call it that because I watched my Dad do these things after he had a stroke and I have one every once in a while after mine.

I looked at the base and figured the logical seeming way to get it off and slid it that way. It was very tight and wouldn't come off. So I look at it closer and yes, this is the only way it can come off

It wasn't. I figured it out today. Push it the other way.

The parts all seemed to match the exteriors so they weren't mixed up. There are basically the same but the fourth seems more cheaply made The lifter is in two parts and appears cast. I'll get some photos up maybe tomorrow once I get them organized. Three are marked MA which I saw somewhere means Lithgow Austrailia, One is marked MA '42 the other two MA with a smaller font and it's one of these that has the weird lifter. The fourth is A in a circle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Push it the other way.

---

I wondered about that too...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

The fourth is A in a circle.

---

Austin Motor Company... Bren Gun magazine markings - question | Gunboards Forums

So I am the proud owner of an Austin now. Cool. Not quite what I expected.

They are clean now and I put them in the pouches. Probably incorrectly. For display purposes do they go in with bullet side up or down and "C" facing towards the center of chest or away from center of chest. I stuck them in with bullet side up which would probably allow more dirt to get in them so probably wrong although it shows them as full so maybe not, and "C" open side facing towards center of chest.

I doubt it matters as the magazines would have been taken out and piled with the Bren. Pouches would have been closed to keep dirt out and Bren gunner would have remarked in no uncertain terms if the magazines weren't good. Your life depended on good supporting fire, ergo clean loaded Bren magazines.

"I also have to figure out how to get them apart to clean the grease out of the insides."


Kerosine, Coleman lamp fuel or oven cleaner are your friends for that chore.

Don't try pushing the thin end off the fat end like I did and you should be fine. I wiped them out with paper towels and then used dawn dish soap. It actually worked fairly well. It didn't desolve everything in the creases of the springs but took care of pretty much everything else.

I was tired, it was very hot and I was not in any mood for anything caustic last night. I had cosmoline all over my hands, went to the kitchen sink, saw that sitting there and thought of how they use it to clean up oil spills and washed my hands with it and it worked. Old toothbrush. Rinsed them off, let them dry in the sun and then sprayed them with Rem oil. Probably slower than the caustic stuff but I wasn't in a rush.

Newest additions: Utility pouches. These are slightly larger than the Bren magazine pouches and were to carry additional munitions from Bren, to mortars to Boys anti-tank clips.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../9rmRvuA-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../1IVg9Qc-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../0eloCyD-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../SijfVLO-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../PbqjcfZ-1.jpg

Figured I might as well get tihe officer set up as well since I have the holster already. Map case

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../NKP4948-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../n8xVq8o-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../4HIklLJ-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../oq7hXce-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../nIp0jji-1.jpg

I don't have this in hand yet so these aren't my pics. Canadian, which is seems a lot of my officers set up is going to be. The holster and map case are also Canadian I believe. I bought a compass case last night also but I have a suspicion it is actually the ammo pouch as they did not show a photo of the interior and it was collapsed. Compass cases should have felt and be stiff. Suits me if it is because the compass cases are easy and the ammo pouches are not.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../p29gdr3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../poh1zTB-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../SghM4Bj-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../FjwtRYZ-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../JUEIGmW-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../AyKMVrH-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../J95XHP5-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../dkvcINO-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../puxKpQH-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../DJbeLWA-1.jpg

That is very interesting with your binoculars. It looks to have a very similar black crackle finish as the world war II Zippo lighters did to keep the lighters from rusting and reflecting. It also seems to flake off in similar ways to the Zippos as well. I wonder if there could be a connection?

I can't answer that. I did not research these in any great detail but have been looking at them for a few weeks. Most binoculars of the period in Commonweath service seem to have similar paint styles and it seems to be chipping off of most of them. One I saw seemed to be very thick, like it had been hand painted. From the photos, it looks like a white metal of some type that would not blue like steel. Could be aluminum. I'll have to wait and see when I get them.

Just for comparison I posted a screenshot of a black crackle paint job on a world war II era Zippo.

That's an expensive lighter. I was just up at the Zippo headquarters a month or so ago. Pretty interesting. They combined with Case knives to make a small museum in Bradford PA. Saw an original special forces knife among other things. It did get me interested in the lighters but I don't have that kind of money.

I was lucky and found one about 6 years ago on eBay ,unfired ,still in its original box with original instructional booklet in mint condition for $450. I collect world war II items and I also collect Zippo lighters so I had to have one haha.$450 sure hurt the wallet but from the looks of them nowadays, I don't think I did too bad. I would love to visit Zippo headquarters and the museum one day. It's on my list of places to go in the future. You have some beautiful Amish country in the state you live in, I remember that vividly traveling to New York when I was about 8 or 9 years old.

Binoculars came today and I was pleasantly surprised to find they are in excellent working order. I was expecting cloudy optics, not that is how they were described but I've seen a lot of references to these 77 year old optics needing rebuilt if you want to actually use them.

It has graduations in the right lens that I'm assuming are for determining range. I'll have to see how to use those.

The paint, or whatever it is. It's thick, a good mm or more, seems to have a hard rubber type of feel to it. I don't want to pick at it to see exactly what it is for obvious reasons. It is coming off. Metal underneath is a white metal of some type, thinking not aluminum as these are pretty heavy compared to modern binoculars. It does not appear to rust. Looks like the original strap as it's riveted on but condition seems new in comparison to the chipped "paint". The leather is almost worn through on the right side however so I don't consider it safe to use. Just a little bit left holding it on that side.

The case is in almost unused condition. Some slight staining here and there but it didn't see muddy combat.

The seller's photos really did it justice so I don't think I need to take any further ones. It will just have to go without my green background.

I am sure I have a large duffle of 37 pattern gear. Is it worth selling?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gun papa

Is it worth selling?

---

It's always worth selling rather than letting it molder in a crawlspace. Someone will pay you.

If it's WWII dated and in good shape you can get some decent money for it. If postwar or no dates it still sells, just not for as much. Seems to be a lot of it around in unissued condition so that seems to keep the market down to a degree compared to US stuff. Unissued US stuff can cost a small fortune.

Anyone know how the rangefinder in the binoculars works? I'm having no luck finding instructions for it. Has a very long side to side and a short vertical. I thought most of these used vertical based on the height of a person.

Compass case came today and it's a pistol ammo pouch so back to eBay on that one. Compass came yesterday. Appears someone removed the radium and replaced it with white paint which I'm OK with. Kind of freaked out when I heard they are hazardous. Still planning to test it somehow to see if there's anything residual with it. Very early production based on serial number.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ngzdXKz-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../9cQO4FZ-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../WBXTPOa-1.jpg

I guess I am going to have to find out what all this stuff is. Some greenish canvas, some early 40's, some 50's
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8/qu1fpt-1.jpg

You definitely have a little of everything...

I would not mind that ammo pouch...

The Green is most likely postwar. The khaki could be WWI or WWII stuff but was also used postwar as well for a while. But production pretty much ceased when the war ended and they had a lot around for years afterwards.

I got the last of what I was looking for last week. A British officers satchel. 7 months of watching eBay since my last purchase and I was looking for it for months prior to that. They were around but either very expensive or in bad shape.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../sVubRtb-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../mA7946e-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../CwLwvVZ-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../pTeLdID-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../UHgfuw5-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ycXUy4l-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../d3ovu7J-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../KeanvY2-1.jpg

ZLT was a Canadian company in Guelph Ontario
Zepher Loom and Textile.
Another common Canadian company of web was MSU
Montreal suspender and underwear

Yeah, this stuff is a mix from all over. Canada and UK make up most of it. I think there's at least one Australian item in there somewhere.