Is this Type 1 Lockbar authentic?

Hi all,

I recently acquired a July ‘42 Springfield with many correct parts, but the thing I was most curious about are the rear sights. I don’t know much about Type 1 Lockbars other than when they were produced and that they’re incredibly rare.

The rifle I purchased supposedly has them, but I don’t know how to tell if they’re fake or not. I don’t know the history of their reproduction as well so I truly am in the dark. I wasn’t able to find any photographs of fake ones online.

Photos are attached here: https://imgur.com/a/NBpcTp9
Rest of the rifle here: https://imgur.com/a/DiLF7zj

The lockbar was on pretty snug, and so I used my shirt to twist it. With the extra force I was able to twist the lockbars twice before it fell off and I panicked.

Any information I would sincerely appreciate! Thank you!

Respectfully,
- Michael

links do not work for me

Photos are attached here: Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Rest of the rifle here: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

reposting they work

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...otw0jpeg-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...q8Fgjpeg-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MA2Xjpeg-1.jpg

Here are the lockbar pics...

Sorry about that everyone, I guess I did not post the links properly. For that, I apologize.

Thank you to both Mark and Jim for correcting my mistakes.

Don't the type 2's have cross pins?

These have been faked for years due to their value, as a complete rear sight assembly with original short pinion and Type 1 lock bar will cost around $600 plus. As you stated on another forum, you paid $1600 for the complete 1942 rifle which would indicate you bought this rifle from someone without any knowledge of early parts - or the Type 1 lock bar is a cheap reproduction. Your Type 1 lock bar is lacking any machining marks and you should always post a photo of the short pinion that came with the lock bar. These are also faked from the later long pinions by reducing the length and re-threading.Attachment 127723Attachment 127724Attachment 127725Attachment 127726Attachment 127727

Photos show original Type 1 lock bars on a June 1942 rifle and a 38K early rebuild

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCS

Your Type 1 lock bar is lacking any machining marks

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Those aren't machine marks? I thought it was just beat up...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCS

These have been faked for years due to their value, as a complete rear sight assembly with original short pinion and Type 1 lock bar will cost around $600 plus. As you stated on another forum, you paid $1600 for the complete 1942 rifle which would indicate you bought this rifle from someone without any knowledge of early parts - or the Type 1 lock bar is a cheap reproduction. Your Type 1 lock bar is lacking any machining marks and you should always post a photo of the short pinion that came with the lock bar. These are also faked from the later long pinions by reducing the length and re-threading.Attachment 127723Attachment 127724Attachment 127725Attachment 127726Attachment 127727

Photos show original Type 1 lock bars on a June 1942 rifle and a 38K early rebuild

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Actually, yes the author made no mention of early parts in the advertisement. They simply listed the rifle as a “July 1942 Six-Digit M1 Garand with no other identifiable features. No specific mention to early parts like the lockbar. That’s essentially why I bought the rifle, as they may not have realized what they had and so I purchased it on the chance they were legitimate and it wouldn’t be a loss if they were fake.

I have attached additional photographs of the disassembled rear sight for further discussion. If there’s anything you see or anything you don’t see please let me know!

https://imgur.com/a/E7pTrMJ

Once again, thank you to everyone who’s helped so far.

You have a nice example of a mid 1942 rifle to work with. But I think that the Type 1 lock bar is a repro and that the short pinion has been re-threaded.

Just my opinion as others may feel that your parts are original.

photo shows a short pinion from a SA 41K rifleAttachment 127736Attachment 127737

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCS

You have a nice example of a mid 1942 rifle to work with. But I think that the Type 1 lock bar is a repro and that the short pinion has been re-threaded.

Just my opinion as others may feel that your parts are original.

photo shows a short pinion from a SA 41K rifleAttachment 127736Attachment 127737

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Admittedly, I am unable to tell a difference between the pictures you offered and my own, I just honestly don't think I have the eyes/expertise for that.

Are there any examples of re-threaded pinions or fake Type 1 Lockbars I could use for reference that you may be aware of? I wasn't able to find any on my own, unfortunately.

I have posed this question for 20 years: if nobody can tell it's not original, does it matter? Doesn't a perfect counterfeit $20 bill spend like a real one? Does it matter if a part was made in my basement or Springfield's? I say no, but I'm a lonely minority (of one).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob Seijas

I have posed this question for 20 years: if nobody can tell it's not original, does it matter? Doesn't a perfect counterfeit $20 bill spend like a real one? Does it matter if a part was made in my basement or Springfield's? I say no, but I'm a lonely minority (of one).

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In this instance, I would hate to lie to myself just as much as I would hate lying to others by stating something is not actually what it is, especially if it is a rare piece. It goes beyond more than just the inherent value for me, although I know that may sound a bit contradictory. Even if I had something that everyone believed was original but I knew was fake, it wouldn't sit right with me. I'm not in this hobby for resale value, I'm in it for authenticity and history. Otherwise, I'd join my father in collecting watches ;)

I recently made a pilgrimage to Springfield Armory and seeing what is in those glass cases while having the privilege to own something similar is something I strive for (however dubious that dream may be). Being on the grounds alone felt surreal. It is also part of my aspiration to see things the way experts such as yourself see them and be able to decipher whether something so trivial as a lockbar/pinion is authentic or not.

As I mentioned earlier, I bought this rifle with the intent of shooting it; the appearance of the lockbar was just a (potential) added bonus, although I can't say I won't feel disappointed for it being fake. Based on your comment title, Mr. Seijas, you believe it is a reproduction?

Sometimes when your not really satisfied with the answers you receive on a posting, you go
to another website looking for a better reply. On the CMP forum, Ronwell posted a photo showing
a company (Standard Parts LLC) listing a repro Type 1 lock bar for sale @ $9.90 which looks
just like your lock bar, lacking any machine marks and having the casting appearance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCS

Sometimes when your not really satisfied with the answers you receive on a posting, you go
to another website looking for a better reply. On the CMP forum, Ronwell posted a photo showing
a company (Standard Parts LLC) listing a repro Type 1 lock bar for sale @ $9.90 which looks
just like your lock bar, lacking any machine marks and having the casting appearance.

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Admittedly, I did copy and paste my inquiry to this forum from the previous one, but that was more to get opinions from others on this forum that are not participants on the other. I spend a little bit more time here and I see a lot of knowledgeable users such as Mr. Seijas and yourself actually and wanted to get additional input.

With that said, I think this matter can be put to rest, but I do want to thank you and everyone who participated and helped answer all of my questions and concerns. So thank you sincerely!