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Hey fellows,
It has been a long time, I just saw a Winchester M2 Carbine but marked as M1 with the W in almost all its parts even in the auto parts, except the 2 sights and barrel band, is it correct that it is marked as M1?
Thank you in advance for your support.
Eddie
Sounds like an M1 that has been converted if it truly has all its "auto" parts. If it's stamped M1, at least it started its life out as an M1.hth, m1s were converted to m2s back in the day all the time by the military. There are no differences in the receivers between an M1 and an M2 carbine except the stamping M1 or M2. I see you are in Mexico so I have no idea on what to tell you legal wise because I do not know Mexico's gun laws, but here in the USA, that is a big no-no unless you have went through the correct steps with our government
Hi again Eddie... As stated there was a military conversion for all Carbines from semi to FA back in the day. I guess it should have been overstamped but then again it could have been done by anyone along the way at any time. Good luck with it.
Hey Jond41403
Thanks for your reply, before my post I was trying to google for answers or images from Winchester M2 without luck, during my search I found a post in machingunboards, there a guy says that he had never seen a Winchester M2 marked as M2, have you?
Cheers :beerchug:
Hey Jim,
As always thanks for your reply I really appreciate it, who made those military conversions that you mention? Do you mean overstamped to hide the mark M2?
If that carbine didn´t leave the factory as it is, I believe that that conversion was made back in those days because of the stock´s inside spot where the selector is, it has the very same color and finish as the rest of the stock´s inside.
Regards
Eddie
A bud here in town has a select-fire Rock-ola, and we all know no Rocks were factory built. Rec'r ring is marked "M1", disconnect lever is serialized...
Russ
A lot of M1 carbines have M2 stocks, mine does as well but it's just a simple M1 carbine with an M2 stock that has a space for a selector switch, just no selector switch. What Jim is saying is it's most likely a conversion done by a civilian and not a military conversion because if the military would have converted it, it would have been overstamped with a two over the one. That's how the military did it, if they converted an M1, they stamped a two over the one(at least most of the time). And now that you mention it, I don't believe I ever have seen a Winchester marked M2, all the m2's I have ever seen pictures of were all inlands. but I am no expert by any means and if there is a Winchester marked M2, someone here will have a picture of it surely.hth
I forgot to mention in my last post, if the auto parts are marked W like you say, at least those parts are most likely USGI parts and not reproduction since they have that marking. All the reproductions I have ever seen usually have no markings. You can't look through eBay under M1 carbine without seeing tons of mostly reproduction M2 parts everywhere
Hey Raselkik,
Thanks for your reply, you´re right only Winchester and Inland made with select fire.
Cheers :beerchug:
Thank you Jond41403,
Now I get about the overstamped, it´s true about the reproductions with no marks.
Regards
Eddie
That's my suspicions anyways Ed, the military converted by armorer and would have over-stamped I think. The parts being original wouldn't surprise me because they used to be available. There used to be pails full around. An older civilian conversion could date back to the 60s...easily. That would show age patina. All this suggested without me being able to study it at all.
Hey Jim,
Thank you for your reply, you´re right.
Regards
Eddie
Winchester made only 17,500 overstamped M2 carbines. They also made 1108 T3 carbines. It seems not a lot of carbines in general were overstamped if converted to M2 carbines.
Since this thread is about m2's, does anyone have a picture of the spacer that was supposed to have been used with a type 4 hammer if no disconnector was involved? I have read a lot of people used washers but I have read there was a spacer and just wonder if they actually manufactured it.thanks
And did that spacer have its own part number for the carbine if it existed? I'm just curious if it would just be a round washer or if it would be shaped like the bottom half of a carbine hammer. I have tried researching this to no avail. Everything I have read mentions a spacer and I would just like to see one if there was a carbine specific spacer.
jond, I do not believe that there is an Ordnance Department "carbine specific" spacer, the type IV hammer was one of the M2 parts that were intended for use only in M2 carbines. I believe that any mention of a spacer that you have read about was likely done on the civilian side just to make that hammer work in M1 configuration.
The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Model T4/M2
Thanks wayne! That makes a lot of sense now
I just reread that link you posted Wayne and it says that while the M2 hammer was designated for the M2 only, it was sometimes used in M1 carbines with a "Field expedient insert"to keep the hammer to the left where it would work in an M1. Does anyone have a picture of the field expedient insert?
Or is field expedient insert just a fancy word for a washer haha? The way it reads seems like it was a kit of some sort
Yep, I'm sure Jim M's meaning there (in the field) would be to improvise with what you had available. I think (2) #6 washers is all it took on one that I did. I still have the exact ones I used - measured the thickness and was going to post that information back in October, but got busy with something else. - Bob
I have a factory Winchester M2 that came from Winchester's corporate gun collection in 1975 and the M2 specific parts are not marked with the exception of the switch is marked "A".Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieM
I thought all parts for the carbine made during the war were to be marked with the exception of very early parts. Parts for the M2 would be considered late war parts and should have been marked shouldn't they? And then parts went back to being unmarked post-war. At least this is my understanding. Am I missing something?
I just looked in War Baby and the only M2 specific parts that they mention with a marking is the switch lever. It states they were marked with an A like mine is.Quote:
Originally Posted by jond41403
All the selector levers were marked with an A because the A stands for automatic and becomes visible above the wood line when you push the lever forward to engage fully automatic. That's all the A is for. All the wartime selector levers I have seen are stamped with that letter A, and also a maker's Mark like L.I. or H.I. I know there are selector levers with no markings except the letter A but I always thought those were post-war selecter levers and the marked ones are wartime made. The disconnector levers during wartime we're supposed to be either stamped R.I A(post-war but still marked).or W.I., or just W. I have not seen any other makers of wartime disconnector levers. All the unmarked disconnector levers I always thought to be post-war but like everything carbines, I'm sure they're always exceptions. Even disconnectors themselves I have seen stamped P.I. but most of the post war disconnectors are unmarked. I'm no expert, just trying to clarify what I have seen
The only markings on M2 specific parts on Winchester Carbines mentioned in War Baby are a W on the disconnecting lever and the A on the selector switch. Guess I missed it the first time around. No markings listed on the disconnector. Also noted on the disconnector lever "quantity/sn rage: insufficient data"; which would indicate to me that there may be other markings or unmarked levers otherwise it would have said "used through end of M2 production" such as noted on the operating slide markings.
Since my M2 came out of the Winchester corporate collection, I have to believe what I have in hand.
I need to invest in me a copy of war baby 3. They are pricey but it seems to contain a lot of information not easily found anywhere else. Since you know the provenance, I would trust what I had in hand also. Does your Winchester have the M2 marking on the receiver ring? That's what Eddie, the OP originally wanted to see and me also haha was a picture of a Winchester M2 stamped carbine. The selector lever just being marked with an A and nothing else,may be an instance of where the first selector levers we're not marked with a makers code. Kind of like some early carbine parts not being marked.
Attachment 129521Yes I do have a picture. Here you go. I also have a couple of Inland M2 specific parts which are marked with Inlands identification.Quote:
Originally Posted by jond41403
Yeah I think that's what the L.I., and W.I. I have seen would be contractors for inland . Anything that ends with an I I would think. I'm sure there are several other manufacturer's codes that I've never seen or heard of before. Thanks for the picture! The P.I. I have seen on disconnectors are probably for inland as well.
Another thing worth noting is that Winchesters have two .. between cal and 30 on the receiver ring while Inland has only one .
Thanks Bob k! That is something I did not know. This is the first picture I am seeing of one. Thanks again for the picQuote:
Originally Posted by Bob K
I see not much has changed while I've been gone. JD asks a question and has everyone do the digging :rolleyes:
Poor ole BobK has done everything but brought his WRA M2 out to your house to show it to you. BTW, Nice Score BobK :thup:
** field expedient insert = Anything that'll make it work
Lastly, I've been looking back thru our past member Mikey51 posts from New Zealand who passed away June 9 2020 as member Mikey 52 (Reregistered). He had a number of really good pictures of WWII Era M2 parts that had markings and those from SA, but the pics are long gone.
I'll Pop back in when I can :runaway:
Good to hear from you Charlie! Haha, I really do need to get me a copy of war baby 3
Just remember you'll need a lot of table space to have them all open at the same time, while you switch back and forth - trying to keep track of all the various notations. Trying to do it with the books on your lap doesn't work very well! - BobQuote:
Originally Posted by jond41403