Just getting into Jap rifles and wanted to start with an example of their best workmanship. Thanks.
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Just getting into Jap rifles and wanted to start with an example of their best workmanship. Thanks.
When it comes to Japanese rifles with iron sights, in my opinion, the best made rifle is a Type 99 long rifle made in the Toyo Kogyo arsenal (Mazda in todays world). The bluing and workmanship is the best of all arsenals. The blueing is so excellent, most people will think the rifle has been reblued and mismatched. This is because their excellent. Also know these rifles have assembly numbers that don’t match the rifle serial number…so they think the bolts are mismatched.
As for accuracy, the Type 99 long rifle is very good…depending on condition. If you want a scoped rifle, seek out a Type 97.
Take this information knowing I just arrived in Aruba for vacation and I’m 3 sheets to the wind right now! Haha!
Enjoy your vacation! As far as iron sights, go versus scoped, I tend to try and get a good example of the military configuration of a rifle, hopefully one that still shoots well for its age. Once I have my good as issued example, then I tend to try and find something more serviceable For my old eyes with a scope or able to take a scope. I’ve also been looking into the rear site base mounted scout scopes that are available for my Swedish M 96/38. It’s made in 1903 and still shoots under an inch with my good reloads .
I would say a Type 99 is likely going to be your best example. Chromelined bores on most of them which protected the bores (only the last ones didn't) vs most other Arisakas which didn't and usually have poor bores. Also Type 99s used 7.7x58 which is a very easy round to load vs the 6.5 Japanese which is more difficult.
Can you expand upon Toyo Kogyo using manufacturing numbers rather than matching serial numbers? Where would they be and how did the system work? I have a 1941 with non-matching serial numbers and a 1944 TK with all all-matching serial numbers so now I am confused. Thank-you!Quote:
Originally Posted by J-ROD
Thanks again for the info. A quick search shows some pretty high prices. At least more than I can spend at this time. I’ll keep looking around.
Singer,Quote:
Originally Posted by Singer B
TK long rifles are ALL assembly numbers except for the serial number on the receivers left side. They (all numbers except the left side receiver) will match the assembly number under the receiver (gotta remove the action from the stock). The same goes for early series 30 Type 99 short rifles and then over a short time frame, there was a mix of assembly numbers and receiver numbers. By series 32, all numbers should match the serial number on the receiver.
As a caveat, I am even more 3 sheets to the wind…Aruba has too many bars….but I’m not too far gone to forget the excellence of TK rifles. [emoji1303][emoji1303]
If I remember my dazed post, I’ll confirm when I get home. [emoji23][emoji23]
Found a 99 at auction. Not sure it’s an early version with chrome bore.
Any input on value?
WWII Japanese Kokura Arsenal Type 99 7.7x58mm caliber bolt action Arisaka rifle. Series 20. Intact Mum. Knurled safety. Serial numbers match on receiver and bolt handle. Bolt stamped "234". Blued finish. Wood stock. Adjustable rear sight. Sling mounts. Cleaning rod. Monopod. Barrel cover. Caliber / Gauge: 7.7x58mm Barrel Length: 26" Serial Number: 63766 Condition: Overall good. Moderate to heavy wear. Bore is fair with moderate wear. Mechanically good.
This is assuming they’ve labeled correctly. This company has mislabeled in the past, to my benefit.
Cool, thanks! I know the Type 38s all used manufacturer codes but I always thought the Type 99s used the serial number system! Love the Caribbean and wish I was there with you!Quote:
Originally Posted by J-ROD
It’s very hard to put a value on a rifle without seeing pictures and/or holding it in my hands. Early Type 99 rifles that are matching with accessories typically top $1k at auctions…again…depending on condition. There are so many variables to determine if a rifle is “correct” when it comes to collector grade rifles.Quote:
Originally Posted by KneverKnew
If you PM me a link, I’ll take a look at it and give you my opinion. I also promise not to bid against you as all my money is going to booze, hotels and food in Aruba! Haha!
---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------
Only Kokura and TK Type 99 rifles used assembly numbers when switching over from Type 38 rifles. Kokura stopped early Series 20 but TK went longer…not sure why. I’m pretty sure Nagoya ditched assembly numbers on their last few Type 38 rifles and believe all their Type 38 / 44 carbines did not have assembly numbers at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Singer B
I’ll check my books when I get sober and back in the states. [emoji1303]
Thank you sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by J-ROD
It’s clear to me that I will not be able to afford one of these rifles anytime soon, to get one in reasonably good shape. So you guys enjoy your Arasaka rifles. Thanks for all the historical info. It’s always a pleasure to learn more about these guns.
Never give up the hunt! National auction sights usually draw deeper pockets…comb pawn shops, estate sales, small time in-person auctions and small gun shows…believe me, even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut. You can still find good deals when some people believe Japanese rifles are “crappy rifles that will blow up on you”. This is where you get can still find deals. [emoji1303]Quote:
Originally Posted by KneverKnew
Always thought that was pretty funny. I understand the truth is they are amongst the very strongest.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-ROD
I agree with JRod...don't give up! I posted a thread a few weeks ago about the all-matching with full Mum I picked up at an auction for $350. There are still affordable rifles out there, you just have to keep searching. Admittedly, I was a searching for a Type 99 for my friend when this one came along, but I couldn't pass it up for my own collection. Half the fun is the hunt!Quote:
Originally Posted by KneverKnew
Singer,Quote:
Originally Posted by Singer B
Seems in my “drunk in Aruba” post, I over estimated the length TK used assembly numbers. TK used assembly numbers on all long rifles and continued using assembly numbers for the first 40,000 rifles of their series 30 short rifle production. After 40k, the last three should match the receiver.
Hope this helps.
Absolutely, thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by J-ROD
My observations on firing Tpye-38 and 99 rifles for accuracy differ some from yours . I have fired over 250 T-99s and 80 T-38s for accuracy testing . I have run a military rifle match for about 18 years every weekend with 100's of different shooters and scoring their results . As issued Type-99's were one of just a few military rifles [ one other was the Enfield ] that just could not compete with all the others for bench rest accuracy . To get people to shoot them after a while we had to have special matches just limited to those rifles . Now Type 38 rifles and carbine did win matches with 1 to 1.5 inch 5-shot 100 yard groups on demand . The T-99's main problems were the large dia rear peep hole [ the accuracy did improve a lot if you made the hole smaller , but that was not a legal as issued rifle ] . The lack of good .311 + bullets , no good match type bullets and the bores being as large as .315+ . The chrome bores did not help either . The 6.5 did have many good bullets to pick from so you could find one your rifle really liked . I even won a match with a pair of sub 1.3 groups from a 1905 made T-38 with the .270 bore by using the Hornady .268 Carcano bullets. Finding a Type 38 with a good bore is harder , but worth it . The Type 97's did shoot groups half the size of all the Type 99 snipers tested . Now sub 1 inch compared to sub 2 inch is not the great a difference , but it is still 100% . One of my T-97's was the most accurate WWII military sniper I ever tested . With my 1000's and a friends 1000's of groups shot with many different loads , plus the 1000's of other targets from the other match shooters I feel that is a good sample .