LE No5 Mk1 stock questions

Hello All, I have just acquired a correct No5 Mk1 jungle carbine and I have some questions about the butt stock. The stock appears to be the correct stock with the correct contours and correct end cap with a well worn rubber pad but there is also a bottom sling attachment that appears to be factory. Has anyone encountered a No5 with a bottom sling attachment on the butt stock? Also, on the bolt handle side of the butt stock is what appears to be a flag of sorts. It is a Red, Gold and Green square. Can anyone Identify this? Thanks for any and all help.

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Originally Posted by rm31859

Hello All, I have just acquired a correct No5 Mk1 jungle carbine and I have some questions about the butt stock. The stock appears to be the correct stock with the correct contours and correct end cap with a well worn rubber pad but there is also a bottom sling attachment that appears to be factory. Has anyone encountered a No5 with a bottom sling attachment on the butt stock? Also, on the bolt handle side of the butt stock is what appears to be a flag of sorts. It is a Red, Gold and Green square. Can anyone Identify this? Thanks for any and all help.

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Pictures would assist in diagnosis.

Many of the African countries use a combination of those colours in different order and orientation.

You will note that Ethiopia has these colours - did it come from the RTI 'Goat-Turd' cache by any chance ?

A few examples :

The barrel is marked I.O. Inc, Melbourne Fl. When I went to their website, it referred me to RTI for sales so it may very well be part of that but I'm not sure. My rifle came from Classic Firearms in Monroe NC.

I have added a photo to my photo gallery but I don't know how to attach it to this thread.

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Originally Posted by rm31859

The barrel is marked I.O. Inc, Melbourne Fl. When I went to their website, it referred me to RTI for sales so it may very well be part of that but I'm not sure. My rifle came from Classic Firearms in Monroe NC.

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Yup - its one of these well cared for No5s (does the bolt number match the action ?)

Unfortunately, the bolt is from a No4. I have been in contact with Classic about obtaining a replacement bolt. The numbers may not match but at least it would be the correct bolt.

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Originally Posted by rm31859

Unfortunately, the bolt is from a No4. I have been in contact with Classic about obtaining a replacement bolt. The numbers may not match but at least it would be the correct bolt.

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It would be the correct type, but it would still need to be checked for fitment, and probably fettled to fit correctly. That's why matching numbers are so important on Enfields, the bolts are not swappable like Mausers and other types. They were individually hand fettled to bit the action.

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Originally Posted by rm31859

Hello All, I have just acquired a correct No5 Mk1 jungle carbine and I have some questions about the butt stock. The stock appears to be the correct stock with the correct contours and correct end cap with a well worn rubber pad but there is also a bottom sling attachment that appears to be factory.

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Won't be factory, well not factory as in Fazakerley or BSA Shirley were the No.5 were originally made.

Will be post war, post British service mod by whatever army or Police service it ended up with in the 50's or 60's.

Concerning the butt swivel machined out recess, IIRC Peter L mentioned some time ago that some contract woodwork manufactured for foreign governments was produced by modifying existing No4 butts. The oval recess was simply filled with a wood patch. It's possible that the patch may have simply fallen out over time.

Please beware of just shoving a replacement bolt into a LE. It may cycle but unless various parameters have been checked by someone who knows what they are doing, it hasn't been FITTED. It isn't only a question of headspace, but also of proper fit of the locking lugs in the locking lug recesses...........plus correct positioning of the front face of the cocking piece against the sear.........you get the picture. If in doubt I would get the advice of a smith.

I removed the bolt and the number appears to be PF 262914. I just wonder if this bolt was properly fitted when someone used it to replace the original bolt.

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Originally Posted by rm31859

I removed the bolt and the number appears to be PF 262914. I just wonder if this bolt was properly fitted when someone used it to replace the original bolt.

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If it was properly FITTED, then the numbers would have been scrubbed and the 'matching' number added to show that the bolt now 'belonged' to that body.

Importer didn't bother to try matching up the bolts on these rifles? A foolish mistake if so. With a PF one would expect a post-WWII No.4 MkI or possibly Mk2.

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Importer didn't bother to try matching up the bolts on these rifles? A foolish mistake if so. With a PF one would expect a post-WWII No.4 MkI or possibly Mk2.

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That PF number will be from a Mk.2 probably made around late 1952. I've seen PF263301 on a 12/52 dated Mk.2.

Yes, we see quite a few of those out here too, but I was reluctant to be more precise than that in case the series was not confined to them. ;)

be aware that P L has quoted No4 parts were used to repair and keep operational No5s in Malaya.

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Originally Posted by Bindi2

be aware that P L has quoted No4 parts were used to repair and keep operational No5s in Malaya.

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Totally correct - but he also said that they would be properly installed and numbered to match.

He would not have left a 'used' bolt with a No4 serial number 'sat laughing at us' from a No5 body.

you are very correct AdE. The bolts would have been renumbered even on the No4 bodies to match.

Thanks to all of you for the great information that you have provided to me. Just a clarification on the butt stock. The butt stock is the correct stock for this rifle. The dimensions and contours are all correct and so is the metal end cap with a well worn rubber butt pad. Someone in the past has added a lower sling attachment. The vendor has made good on their promise to provide a correct bolt and I will be taking the rifle to my local gunsmith, who specializes in vintage milsurp rifles, to have the bolt properly fitted to the rifle.

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Originally Posted by rm31859

I will be taking the rifle to my local gunsmith, who specializes in vintage milsurp rifles, to have the bolt properly fitted to the rifle.

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Just be aware that the Lee Enfield is not a 'typical milsurp' and unless your local gunsmith has knowledge and experience of Lee Enfields it'll probably be nothing like anything he has worked on before.

How many other rifles manufacturers have to have the bolt numbered to match the body because they have to be individually hand fitted ?

If you look in the Library under Peter Laidlers posts you will see a series of 'lectures' on fitting up Lee Enfields - there are one of two that cover 'how to fit and instal a breech bolt'

Hello all, Sorry to have taken so long to reply. I work 12 hr night shifts. I printed out Peter's articles on fitting the bolt and took it to my gunsmith along with my rifle. He already had this article in his possession and knew all about properly fitting the bolt. I have another question though concerning the buttstock cap screws. I went to remove the buttstock cap to change out the worn buttstock pad and the top screw is unlike a normal wood screw. It is some type of small diameter machine screw with a larger shank. Has anyone seen this type of buttstock cap screw before? thanks

Why replace the original pad? If the "toe" is worn you could invert it. If shooting comfort is the issue a slip-on butt pad will be cheaper, easier and better. The purportedly softer repro pads make very little difference IMHO.

As for undoing the bolt, if you have the original "Chicago bolt" fastening in there, just unscrew a few turns and tap down gently to see if the long shank will move; it might be rusted in. No point trying to force it to rotate with a driver, you'll only b-----g up the slot.

Repeat the undo and tap process until the long shank is about 1/4" out at which point you should be able to pull it out by grabbing the head in soft jaws etc. The threads are fine so too much hammering will ruin them, especially if unscrewed too far. Likewise the counter-bore on the long shank is thin walled, and careless use of a drift/punch will potentially b-----r that up as well; use only a brass one if required.

As for which end of the bolt is which, logically the short end would be uppermost, but you'll only find out when you start to undo them.

My two cents. :D

And if the original short & long shanked screws get bxxxxxed up, there's an old dodge that PL mentioned some time back that I have used most successfully on a couple of occasions; replace the troublesome screw with a pair of No4 butt swivel screws, They do the job perfectly & the heads fit in the countersinks just fine.