Is there any benefit to somewhat loosening the front trigger guard screw on a properly bedded No4 rifle for long term storage?
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Is there any benefit to somewhat loosening the front trigger guard screw on a properly bedded No4 rifle for long term storage?
I can't see any benefit all, if the collar was fitted correctly when the fore-end was first fitted up then there should be no additional pressure on the woodwork as the front trigger guard screw will be seated against the collar.
Some people do it, just tie a label on it to remind you that you loosened it.
You could go nuts and swap out the 1/4" x 26 BSF front screw for a hex or torx "cap" screw if you can find one with that thread.
Then, you can use an "inch-pound" torque wrench to ensure repeatable tension.
This is commo0n practice with the bench-rest set who, of course, are infrequent users of the mighty No4 action.
And, as pointed out already, a correct bedding setup requires all the "load" to be taken by the little collar, which is supposed to be precisely trimmed to length as per the original instructionsThe pressure applied to teh fore-end by the triggerguard is much more important. See also: Thew upward pressure applied by the front of the fore-end to the barrel.
And just for giggles, ALL of the aforementioned was done to tune the rifles to shoot the government-issued Mk 7 ball ammo. Not Hornady "Match", not PPU Mk 8z, nor an infinite array of "hand-loads".
Deviate from that fodder and all bedding bets are off.
I agree with Bruce its more like finding a load that the rifle likes, there are those of us here that have spent countless hours at the range and serious $'s as consumable components are not cheap Sierra SMK 174gn projies are now over a $1/Aud each here now.
The modern projie has a better BC than the standard MkVII so will fly flatter so your sight settings will be higher for any given yards range and if you shoot allot of ranges then your going to have to throw a good deal of lead away to get the DOPE on all the conditions, windy days, hot days, overcaste days, early morning verses late arvo on and on it goes.
I did this over the course of a few years and have worked out the load and sight settings on my 4' & III's for each individual rifle I used in comp's which in some cases were winning combinations but it cost serious $'s given the amount of rounds put down range.
The only pill that came close to the MkVII was the Highland 174gn projie but we cannot get them here anymore 5 years ago I lucked onto 400 of them and snapped them up they are still here along with 300 of Malcolm Bones Tiapan 174Gn HPFB in .312".
I have found that the Prvi Partisan (PPU) 174g factory load is very close to MkVII, except that it seems to be a 'fraction' high and slightly to the left (sorta 10 O'clock ish) but once zeroed in is very close, and, importantly, is consistant.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
In fact, I found I could not home-load to give any better performance that the factory.
Alan, I've come to a similar conclusion regarding the PPU bullet (rather than the factory load) after shooting a competition the other day at 600 yards; it's certainly made me question the use (and cost!) of the 174gr Sierra MK in my No.4 SR"b" rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
Whilst supplies of the PPU 174gr .311 bullet appear to be unaffected in the UK, I'm desperate to try the .308 150gr PPU bullet which I suspect has become a casualty of the ongoing war in Ukraine.
Pretty much all projies here are unobtainuim or very very limited and primers are even more so at least in West Au pistol powder is non existent.
I did find out the other day that Aus sent over 150 Million rounds to the Ukraine which was or could have been a mixed munitions sizes, but either way our govt apparently has left us a bit short!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
I'd happily give up a few weeks / months worth of ammunition - I expect that Ukraine will find it much more valuable than us 'leisure plinkers' who just want to kill pieces of paper.
My reference on the munitions side of things is successive Govts have run our forces a bit ragged with budget cuts and lack of upgrades and as always it has been a worry that Aus eventually there may be the possibility of a take over from the North. (But we will sell off our country long before that happens.)
Its really a swipe at our leaders in charge.
I'm very sure the rounds will do the job for the Ukrainian armed forces, as far as paper cutters go here us milsurps shooters (Civies that is) are no longer allowed to shoot at Fig.11 or 12 targets or any humanoid figure only bulls eyes.
Plus us civies here are pretty much restricted to bolt guns only.........they are getting tougher ownership laws passed as well, they will never be satisfied until in this state at least all the firearms belong to the police or armed services.
One deputy police commissioner said and I quote "Owners of firearms who do not use them at all can hand them into any police station." yeah like I'm going to hand in my Sniper T and a few other collectible rifles for nothing at all.
He even went on to say that all illegal firearms once started as legal ones what a load of horse sh*t have they never heard of ghost guns don't come to West Au to live if you want to own a firearm it is now incredibly expensive and ringed in iron hoops to stop you.:mad::banghead::red face:
I have a little torque drive and religiously slacken off and then torque up each time I shoot. some one somewhere early on told me it was a good idea. I am not convinced it helps but I can’t see it hurting and it makes me feel better. either way my effect on target is **** poor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne
Why would you need to torque it ?
Once the forend is correctly fitted / bedded and the collar adjusted to the correct length, all you do is let the bolt / screw just 'bottom out'.
because I have one, I can’t see it not helping with consistent setup of the rifle. it is just part of my pre shoot routine, like putting a dry patch through the bore and chamber. My aim is to always leave the rifle in low stress state, but to re set it prior to shooting as consistently as possible.
If the wood isn't saturated with oil it shouldn't matter. If it is saturated, it won't help.Quote:
Originally Posted by scharfschutzen63
My concerns is the upward pressure exerted on the barrel diminishing over time with the forestock under constant load. I believe a piece of wood will change shape over time with a constant force. I guess the question would be is 3 to 7 pounds enough force to have a change occur over time? Will the upward force on the barrel remain constant over the years with the front trigger guard screw kept tight?
I think within our lifetimes it will.Quote:
Originally Posted by scharfschutzen63
On a correctly fitted front trigger guard screw & forend there is no 'crushing pressure' on the forened.Quote:
Originally Posted by scharfschutzen63
The collar allows the bolt to be fully tightened until it bottoms out and is just holding (but not putting any pressure) on the wood.
Full instructions of how to do it correctly are in Peter Laidlers 'notes' in the 'library'.
i cannot see how long term stress will not affect the shape of the wood, which is why i slacken mine off when storing them. Mid people will disagreeQuote:
Originally Posted by scharfschutzen63
And everyone needs to remember that rifles in actual "SERVICE" have long been subject to regular attention by inspectors and armourers...
In pretty much ALL cases, the bedding is not set once and left alone.
One classic example is your basic SMLE. in order to inspect the state of the barrel exterior, let alone all the springs and plungers hiding away, the fore-end had to be removed.
This entailed removing the outer band, It would otherwise involve a lot of "Zen" to remove the woodwork intact.
Those who have been paying attention will have noticed that the outer-band retaining screw has a small countersink on the threaded end. During assembly, this is there to align a centre-punch to flare out the end of that screw, to stop it backing out. (No Loctite around when these rifles were designed.
Thus, EVERY time a rifle had gone for a swim, suffered fore-wood damage, just come up for routine inspection, this little screw had to be carefully removed, including the very careful use of a hand drill, to cut away the "flare".
Most "civvie" enthusiasts miss this little detail and cheerfully wind that screw out cold. Then they wonder why the thread in the mild steel or BRASS band is so dodgy.
This is why that odd little screw was made in disproportionately high numbers; and "active" Battalion would be churning through them each year, at a spectacular rate due to repairs and inspections.
These were BATTLE implements, not "safe queens".
But, if you do not apply a similar mindset to hunting rifles, in particular, things could get really annoying out in the woods. ONE tiny, corroded spring can really ruin your day.
Consistency is one of the essentials to repeatable accuracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne