Something Wonderful My Way Cometh....

Working part time (two days a week) at my friend's local gun shop has its advantages. Today An unmolested 1943 Inland. came in as part of an estate. Serial number 50336XX. Everything looks correct, according my my Reisch book.

It does say that Type 2 sights started being used starting around 5,000,000, but I know that Type 1s were used up, so it is probably correct. No staking from a type 2/3 sight, so I doubt it was changed. Also the hand guard is 4 rivet, but HI stamped. Reisch says 5,500,000 for 4 rivet. Maybe replaced. The stock is stamped HI in the sling well. It has a faint cartouche on the right side of the stock. Also has a C tip original sling. It's in 10 day Comiefornia jail.

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Nice clean sling. Nice piece...

Thanks, muzzle is great too. A standard WW2 M2 Ball 30-06 round shows almost 1/4" between case and crown! REALLY crisp rifling, too. I think carried much, shot little. Maybe an officers gun.

No one knows anything about it except it was in a collection with a bunch of old guns, including another Inland (un-messed with,but had the 150 peep cut to a notch in the field), and A Winchester with a Type 2 sight added later. No import marks. The Winchester just seemed like an old DCM/NRA gun. Type I band, but a Type II rear sight, and 4 rivet handguard with one stake mark on the receiver. Stock was not a Winchester, either.

Input from CMP, appears a NPM stock. Barrel maybe a year too early, but that is not necessarily true, as they would just put new incoming barrels on top of the barrels left. Still a nice sample, and I have no intention of "making it correct," as I am not a collector. It will stay as is, since it is a shooter for me, and close to the Inland my dad carried on Iwo Jima. I'll replace the recoil spring and I may use it as my Home Defense carbine, loaded with Hornady Critical Defense ammo. Should take care of any Zombies that come through my door.....

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

The stock is stamped HI in the sling well.

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I see TRIMBLE in the upper right corner. Does it have the NPM buttplate? - Bob

P.S. I like the Type 2 barrel band. Any markings on it?

My 5.4 Inland is an original gun. Type 2 rear sight, type 2 American Swiss band, barrel 8/44
4 rivet HI with matching HI stock, cartouche, late slide, round bolt, all of the correct original issues like receiver sand blast line, shadow on barrel, etc. Chris Albright's beautiful article in CC publication 346? 361? covers these Inland carbines right down to the smallest part. I would take the time to look over that article and it will reveal what you have. Nice carbine and @$1300 a good buy out west.

Once I get it, I'll tear it down and take pics of everything.

That NPM stock certainly isn't original to the carbine.....

Also at the side of the receiver by the bolt lug, there's a spot where later selectors came up through. This one appears to have an anomaly there...like it was filled or gouged. Something else to look at later?

It is a coincidental gouge in the edge of the wood there. It is not cut out for selector. And yes, I would say it was put on the carbine later! Very, nice stock, though.

That gun for $1,300 in California is a great deal. Congrats!

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Barrel maybe a year too early, but that is not necessarily true, as they would just put new incoming barrels on top of the barrels left.

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Bernie, I'm not seeing your reasoning there, but know that just about anything can happen with M1 Carbines. I just checked the CC website and looks like Spring of '44 would be the usual barrel date for your S/N. :dunno: - Bob

Bob, I am sure you are right that it was the wrong barrel. My reasoning, though, is that possibly, as batches of newly made, dated barrels came in to the assembly room, they are put in a bin on top of what is left of the last batch. Then put on a receiver. Older ones could be covered up, then eventually end up at the top of the pile months later, and finally put on a receiver.

I ran into a situation like this on a 3rd generation S&W semi-auto pistol . A couple years ago, I got one with the large, hooked trigger guard. When I contacted customer service for a BOD, the told me it was two years after the change to a smaller rounded trigger guard. I pursued it with them, and was told that sometimes one would be at the bottom of the pile when assembling.

Maybe after I pick it up, some good close-up pics of barrel and receiver will give a clue.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Older ones could be covered up, then eventually end up at the top of the pile months later, and finally put on a receiver.

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This is a very common problem in manufacturing plants even to this day. The proper process is called FIFO — first in, first out.

For durable goods (like rifle barrels!) it’s not a huge problem, honestly.

For perishable goods, it can be a serious issue. This is why they stock milk from the back of the display case.

Edit to add: this type of mindful production processes were super widespread in just a handful of manufacturing plants prewar. Ford and National Cash Register come to mind.

Postwar it became even less common as American manufacturing essentially had a global monopoly. Why bother with minutia like that if you’re the only game in town?

Eventually, while rebuilding their economy, the Japanese embraced Ford’s (specifically) ideas on continuous improvement and brought them back into the mainstream. This is why you don’t hear about these ideas today without also hearing about Toyota.

I remember seeing a video of a WW2 movie about rifle or carbine production during the war. barrels were stacked in a wood sided bin or open front and top box that was counter top level. There were hundreds of stripped barrels in the bin, apparently newer ones just piled on top of earlier ones. The assembler would grab a barrel and fit it to the receiver, then put it on a cart to move a batch to the next station.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

The assembler would grab a barrel and fit it to the receiver, then put it on a cart to move a batch to the next station.

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Exactly, and when making a wartime consumable it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Bob, I am sure you are right that it was the wrong barrel. My reasoning, though, is that possibly, as batches of newly made, dated barrels came in to the assembly room, they are put in a bin on top of what is left of the last batch. Then put on a receiver. Older ones could be covered up, then eventually end up at the top of the pile months later, and finally put on a receiver.

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Thanks! I guess the reason I wasn't "going along" with that idea is that I've not seen much evidence of that with Inlands that I've owned, or in data from Carbine related websites. I have most of the books, but even those are 10 or more years old now - I never did have the CC Club newsletters, though. Dan Pinto (and Bill Moore ) wrote a good article in 2019 on some Inland "oddities" that's available over on the CC Club Forum.

Inland Mis-stamped Serial Numbers - The Carbine Collector's Club

I've always had the idea that Inland was turning out Carbines at such a rate in those days that barrels were being used nearly as fast as they were being produced. I sure wish I had started this hobby when I was young enough to remember more details! That carbine looks really nice - just noticed what appears to be a Type 5 slide on it, too. Now, I can't wait for more pictures. - Bob

The more we learn, the more we find that there is to learn!

Yep, the Type 5 slide, I believe, is correct for that serial number.

Digging into Ruth's book, you see Inland going to Ordnance and getting permission to use rejected barrels that will work. Guaranteed that the bin was down to the bottom. My 5.4 has a 8/44 new barrel that has rifling like a 45 automatic, shallow as hell but it would work. The barrels were always the problem and the cause of production issues. Look at NPM...they were using anything they could get and IBM gives them thousands of new hi quality barrels at the end of their run. Please look into Chris Albright's articles they go through the carbines part by part and you'll see what you've got.

I'm just not a great fan of Inlands. The finish is some odd black stuff that scrapes off mine when you move the band back and forth. The top HI handguard is new and yet you only see about half of the front sight when aiming. You just wouldn't see this kind of stuff on a Winchester or NPM. You can tell that Inland made good car parts.

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Originally Posted by USGI

Thanks! I guess the reason I wasn't "going along" with that idea is that I've not seen much evidence of that with Inlands that I've owned, or in data from Carbine related websites. I have most of the books, but even those are 10 or more years old now - I never did have the CC Club newsletters, though. Dan Pinto (and Bill Moore ) wrote a good article in 2019 on some Inland "oddities" that's available over on the CC Club Forum.

Inland Mis-stamped Serial Numbers - The Carbine Collector's Club

I've always had the idea that Inland was turning out Carbines at such a rate in those days that barrels were being used nearly as fast as they were being produced. I sure wish I had started this hobby when I was young enough to remember more details! That carbine looks really nice - just noticed what appears to be a Type 5 slide on it, too. Now, I can't wait for more pictures. - Bob

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That's because they were. I know some collectors get hung up on FIFO, but it doesn't explain every anomaly seen by today's collectors. Some guys use FIFO to justify their carbines, in this case, to be original even though it's no more than a leap of faith to think that way. If you really want to know if that barrel is original to that Inland, take the stock off and pull the slide back, then look for a slightly bare area just in front of the gas cylinder. Inland finished their carbines as a unit, so in the case of barrels, they would pull the barrel band all the way back to the gas cylinder and apply finish, this would leave a bare area (maybe a shadow is a better word) just forward of the cylinder. How wide is you bare spot or shadow if you will-that will be the answer to an original barrel on this Inland.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

The top HI handguard is new and yet you only see about half of the front sight when aiming.

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Back when we had no information about this stuff we wondered how you were supposed to use something with wood that high. At the time it seemed wrong and we had no idea it was original.

UPDATE: There was an issue with my purchase of the carbine. It was one of four from the estate. One was a mixmaster Winchester which went to a friend of the family. Another was the Inland with the notch sight, also going to a friend of the family. The one I was buying, and a mixmaster Inland. We found out that the one I was buying was promised to a family member. The available Inland rebuild was a really clean, ser# 506XXX 6 digit Inland, late/post war rebuild with a barrel dated 3-43. Barrel has less than a 1 ME and beautiful crisp rifling. Nice pot belly stock, Type 3 rear sight and barrel band. I took it (and partial refund) instead so the family member can have his piece of family history. No sour grapes, here. Maybe next time.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

506XXX 6 digit Inland

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Pics anyway when you get it. Maybe a full expose...

Actually a 7-43 Inland barrel, which seems about right based on the master list on US Carbine 30 Caliber M1.. Any input???? It has a later type V slide, flat bolt, M2 mag catch, and a potbelly stock that seems to just have the original Linseed Oil coating that is soaked in and dry. The stock has definitely NOT been sanded. The barreled action hangs in the stock with about 1/8" clearance between barrel and channel at front. It has a Winchester trigger housing and a REALLY sweet trigger pull.

Did you notice if that stock was an SA or an Inland? - Bob

I have (3) 6 digit Inlands:

408K 4-43
476K (undated)
755K 7-43

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

a REALLY sweet trigger pull.

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I'll bet that's from lots of range and combat time...lots of rounds.

From the Carbine master list: Probably the original barrel

479,xxx. 6-43,
504,2XX. 7-43 (Mine)
507,xxx. 7-43,
572,xxx 8-43

Pics: EDITED: SA stamp on stock by barrel channel Handguard is IO IIRC.

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The stock really looks like it just has the original Linseed Oil treatment. Would this rebuild have been done in 1945 (after Germany surrendered) when they were upgrading carbines to send to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan? Or maybe after the war?

Yes, stock is pretty dry. Quite a ding in the spring tube housing too.

The picture makes the ding look worse than it is. It doesn't interfere. I have a mix of 50/50 Linseed Oil and Mineral Spirits I think I will freshen it up with.

I am really tickled. Apparently Springfield Armory only made these stocks between 1949 and 1954. It looks like it is NOS, with only the first coat of Linseed Oil on it, I doubt if the stock had been on any other Carbine before this one. The barrel is original (there is a second barrel shadow from the type I band, underneath), but less than 1 ME, and crisp, bright rifling. It has all the upgrades that they would have put on for Korea or Vietnam. All it is lacking is a round bolt.

Great, clean, solid carbine. I'll add my stock pouch and leather handled M4 Bayonet. It will be as good of a little war-fighter as it was back in the day..Cant wait to shoot it. I think I may use it as my Home Defense Carbine.

I'm puzzled. Bolt lug marked "36S", no other markings.

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Per someone on CMP, a late Standard Products bolt. I figured it was some kind of a late bolt, because of cam angle and ejector.

Looking at the bottom photo of the receiver, you clearly see the line where sandblasting stopped and just finish below that. I think Inland was the only company doing that. Truth be known, I'd take this gun over the other in a heartbeat. That stock is beautiful. It is a much more honest carbine. A great example of a post rebuild gun with the upgraded parts that make it a better weapon. The round bolts were being used for M2 and the flat bolt was probably done at the rebuild. The type 3 band will make your carbine shoot better and you can put that bayonet on it and use that to get someone's attention. My best shooter is the NPM rebuilt by Underwood. It has an original IBM Corp barrel with some but not a lot of wear. A mirror image you that one except it has an I cut Inland stock. It can hold the 10 ring on an SR-1 at 100 yards.
You done good.

Thanks, Dave I agree. This stock was the 'freshest" stock I have ever seen!. Not sanded (after being soaked in Linseed Oil), and other than the minor crack on the nose, it is gorgeous. I hit it with a little coat of 50/50 LSO/Mineral Spirits and freshened it up. I'll bet this one is a shooter. The barreled receiver hangs perfectly in the stock, with a 1/8" gap between the channel and the barrel.

Years ago (around 1999-2000) I got my hands on a white bag carbine, still in its VCI pouch. It had a black manganese phosphate finish. It was as gorgeous as the day it was re-issued (its stock was "fresh" like this one). I would put this carbine right up there with that one. A year later I was forced out a disability retirement, and I had to let it go (I had three kids in college, and my wife was laid off from her union meat cutter job three weeks later Very tough time). That was a big regret for me. This one looks like it came right out of an arms room.

I wonder if it is DCM (unlikely with all the upgrades), or maybe a CMP "Service Grade."

Brought my new War Baby home. Very happy!

Don't know when that was done, but if you look at the picture of the top of the front area of the stock, you can make out the SA stamping on the left side just behind the barrel band cut.

Yep, someone on CMP pointed that out. Apparently, SA made these stocks 1949 to 1954. It was probably put put on this carbine in its final rework. There are no import stamps, and the family thought this one (maybe came from CMP), was acquired much later than the other three the deceased had, which I was told were old NRA/DCM guns from the 1960s.

Interesting development. The family member opted out of the early featured carbine I was originally going to get.. I picked up the 1950ish rebuild already, but put that first carbine on lay-a-way. Nice carbine and good investment...

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

the early featured carbine

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So you'll be getting that one after all?

Yep, I'll have both.

Lightning strikes the same place twice. Calif. is a carbine desert. Good job..

Good for you!:D