Help with 1899 Krag Carbine, please.

Have a line on a 1899 Krag Carbine. Serial number 2291xx.
Stock has no plug, and has spring band.
Stock has cartouche with 1899. No P proof mark underneath. Hump sight protector. Sight is correct Buffington with a C on left. Stock looks to be a tad sanded, but not too much. Correct front sight but no cover. Bluing looks good. (Will try to post photos later.) There’s a small stamp of 173 on the top of the rear stock.

Questions:1. Does the serial number correspond with 1899 manufacture?
2. Would the hump forearm be an later update or is it possible to have one for this gun?
3. On the front sight, should the blade have a c stamp or would that only be on the sight cover?(sight cover missing.)

Photos:

Hang on, Butlersrangers and a couple others will be along to examine it's authenticity. Nice carbine, hope it's all good...as it looks.

'Wizard' - That is a very nice, correct, and interesting U.S. model 1899 carbine.

Krag carbine, #229190, was assembled at Springfield Armory around October 1899.
There is a nice agreement with the stock's [J.S.A. - 1899] acceptance cartouche.

Carbine serial number 229190 is listed in the SRS (Springfield Research Services) data, that was collected by Frank Mallory ("Krag Rifle Story") and others.
The SRS data are lists of U.S. military serial numbers that were found in surviving official documents and published in a series of SRS books. Only about 3% of the nearly 1/2 million Krag serial numbers are in the SRS list.

"#229190 - 1899 carbine - 02/19/1936 - Second Corps Area"
(Approximately 37 model 1899 carbines are listed in SRS with that same date and notation).
I wish the data told us a lot more!

The carbine you are considering buying, #229190, was assembled at a period, when carbines and rifles were being fitted with the "Knob-less" cocking-piece.
This was an economy move that proved more costly than the regular knobbed cocking-piece. There was eventually a return to the 'knob', but the knob-less version was left in service.
Also, when your carbine was assembled the 'Dickson' model 1898 rear-sight was in use. This sight had three sighting 'V' notches on the eyepiece. The outside notches were to correct for strong cross-winds.
The 1898 sight base had a very low elevation ramp, because it was sighted for a higher velocity (220 grain bullet @ 2,200 fps) cartridge. When some Krags began developing cracked bolt 'locking-lug' problems, there was a return to the earlier 2,000 fps cartridge.

The three-notch model 1898 rear-sights became obsolete and were removed.

Most U.S. Krags were repaired and refurbished during service. Eventually all Krags were intended to have the model 1901 or model 1902 rear-sights, with the appropriate handguard to fit the sight model. Krag handguards are 'sight specific' and have different sight openings.

In 1902, a carbine handguard was adopted that had a protective 'hump'. This was to prevent the 1901 rear-sights and saddle scabbards, from damaging each other.

It makes perfect sense that model 1899 carbines that were documented in 1936, as still being in use, should have been upgraded to the 1901 rear-sight and protective handguard.

The 1899 carbine front-sight blade has a .355" height when removed from its base. There is normally a small "C" visible on the right-side of the blade. The rifle blade measures .413" tall, when out of the base.

It is pretty common for Krag carbines to be without the front sight hood/protector.

Butlersrangers… thank you so very much for your thoughtful and fantastic reply. Very much appreciated.

Question: does the stock look sanded to you to the point where it seriously affects value?

When Krag rifles and carbines were inspected and 'refurbished', the stocks were skillfully scraped and sanded to remove blemishes.

This carbine was kept in government inventory and some type of use to at least 1936. The wood looks consistent with the metal and is pleasing and appealing to me.

It is a nice carbine with patina and character. (and SRS documented)

One more question pertaining to the SRS note:
"#229190 - 1899 carbine - 02/19/1936 - Second Corps Area"

Does this mean that when issued it went to the Second Corp, or, does it mean in 1936 it was WITH the Second Corps?
Thanks in advance.

'Wizard' - I find the SRS data rather frustrating, because there is very little context.

It is just a quick 'snapshot', indicating a specific serial number was found listed in a surviving official document, from some point of time.
It is all rather arbitrary, because lots of material has been lost or was never reviewed.

The nature of the source is not mentioned.
Whether the current owner, (of the SRS data and Frank Mallory's research), has more background information, I do not know.

Some quick internet searching shows, that in 1920, the U.S. War Department organized the Regular Army, Reserves, and National Guard into nine Corps Areas.

The attached description identifies the extent of the Second Corps Area.

(My hunch is that the SRS mention of model 1899 carbines in 02/19/1936 was possibly related to one of the cavalry groups in the Second Corps Area? Just a guess, I don't rightly know).

Attachment 129750

Purchased! Thanks so much for the info. Now to get it lettered pertaining to the SRS. Not getting a response though.

I think this Krag has gone to a good home.
Please keep us posted, if you get more background information!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

I think this Krag has gone to a good home.
Please keep us posted, if you get more background information!

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Thank you! Will do!

The rear sight as other stated is a Model 1901 not a Buffington. The Buffington rear sight was only on the Trapdoors.
Nice find.

FWIW - 'mark1' is correct.

But, it is also true that the model 1901 sight for the Krag bears strong similarities to the 'trapdoor' Buffington designed sight.
The model 1901 rear-sight was adopted for the Krag while Buffington was in command at Springfield Armory.

I had read that in nineteen-oh-something Buffington ordered all then in-service Krags to be converted to the M1901 sight and corresponding handguard. He felt it was the most accurate sight available at the time and far superior to the M1902 with the cheesey rotating peep. Both rifles and carbines received the "upgrade" including my 1903 manufactured Krag rifle. I really like the M1901 sight and wouldn't have said the same of the M1902 sight that originally came on my rifle.

Also isn't the M1903 rifle 1903/1906 sight a simplified M1901 sight which was a simplified Buffington trapdoor sight? You can definitely see the lineage when you look at all 3 of them side by side.

'oldfoneguy' is correct in my opinion. The 'Buffington' rear-sight on the model 1873 'trapdoor' Springfield, the Krag model 190l rear-sight, and the model 1905 rear-sight of the 1903 Springfield rifle all share a pedigree and the influence of Chief of Ordnance - Adelbert Buffington.

(By the same token, the Krag model 1898 & model 1902 rear-sights, as well as, the sight found on the early 'rod-bayonet' 1903 Springfield rifles share features designed by Lt. Tracy C. Dickson).

Attachment 129887