Poly Teck ??

First post...sort of long.
My shooting buddy has a new poly teck M14 clone and ask me to find some info on this weapon. So I googled.The opinions on this weapon ranged from junk to good. Some "said soft bolt,soft trigger parts,head space problems the sights shoot loose ,get a total rebuild before you even fire the weapon." Others" said good rifle,fired thousands of rounds..no problems, will out shoot the Spingfields ect." Fulton wants $2000 to rebuild ,not an option for my buddy,Smith Enterprise wants $500 to replace the bolt...getting better. I told him ,I would fire a few rounds, check the empties for signs of head space problems and go from there. From what I read on this forum...you guys are very knowlegeable on this subject. If any work needs to be done on this rifle is there a gunsmith in PA. that can do the work? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...Thank You Tom

Bozley, I have one, and it shoots ok for a stock type gun. I don't shoot it much but I do keep an eye on the bolt. several of the bolts were not properly heat treated, but some seem ok. one day I will switch the parts over to USGI, using the receiver. right now I shoot Garands to much to worry about it. as you have already heard, some are OK and some are just bad. a new GI bolt is a good idea if you want to shoot it a lot. HTH

see links,
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Polytech M14 Rifle
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Norinco M14 Bolt report [Archive] - THR
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http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14SReview3.htm
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Polytech M-14 [Archive] - TheFiringLine Forums
...

I've had one since 1994. I shot about 500 rounds through it with no indications of a bad bolt or headspace problems. I am not a competition shooter, but the accuracy was great for a casual shooter. Everything I have read says that the only potential problems with the Polytec were the springs and the bolt and possibly the hammer. THose parts might be a little soft. Keep an eye on your headspace and shoot it. If it develops problems then have a USGI bolt installed.

Back around 1999 or so when CMP was selling M14 parts very cheap, I bought just about every thing I needed and switched out the parts. Springfield Armory at that time was selling almost new condition M14 barrels for $99. I bought one of those also.

My rifle now is all GI except the reviever and oprod. The only reason I change all the parts was because they were so inexpensive at the time.

Sir, FWIW, I've rebuilt three Polytech M14 types with GI parts and also shot them in factory trim. I have no way to check metallurgy, but here are my observations from just working on and shooting the things.

The receivers seem good dimensionally. USGI and commercial barrels screw right on. USGI rear sights and charger guides drop in. The locking lug surfaces are the correct angles. The receiver bridge is correctly shaped and timed to both stop and clear the firing pin tail. Clearance for the bolt's locking lugs is often tight, hindering free bolt rotation. USGI bolts have to be fit, and sometimes this requires replacing the Chinese barrel. (See below.) I haven't tried replacing the connector lock or bolt stop.

The Chinese bolts are bad dimensionally. The rear surfaces of the bolt lugs often are angled incorrectly and show minimal surface contact on their corresponding surfaces in the receiver. It often looks like the Chinese set headspace by grinding on the rear of the bolt lugs with an unguided hand tool (!).

The Chinese barrels vary considerably. Some will headspace correctly with a USGI bolt, and some won't. Some are quite accurate, and some aren't. [shrug] Many of the Chinese guns come with long headspace. Some say they're headspaced for 7.62 rather than .308, but I suspect the headspacing was just sloppily done and tended to err on the long side. Oddly enough, my personal rifle came with correct commercial .308 headspace, as checked with Clymer gauges.

The Chinese trigger groups I've seen all showed rough machining and had heavy, gritty trigger pulls. Replacing the Chinese hammer, trigger, their respective pins, and the hammer spring with GI parts usually fixes the crummy trigger pull.

The Chinese stocks I've handled were made of some trashy soft mystery wood. It tends to fray and shred instead of cut when being routed for glass bedding. The stock furniture (the metal parts) is fine, though the stock liner and its screws are metric and will not interchange with USGI. Same for the rear sling swivel and its screw.

The Chinese gas systems are carbon steel with chrome plating, whereas USGI parts are stainless steel. I've seen the Chinese parts corrode, though not often. The Chinese gas cylinder lock has metric threads and will not interchange with USGI. I've neither seen nor heard of any problems with the Chinese op rods. They're reputed to be forged in one piece like the TRW op rods, but I have no way to confirm this.

The Chinese rear sights' clicks are not as positive and "clean" as those of GI sights.

The Chinese magazines work well.

In stock trim, the guns shoot well enough. My personal rifle has never jammed, either in factory trim or after USGI conversion. The same is true of a friend's rifle. His gun was surprisingly accurate in factory trim--off the bench it would keep five rounds of Federal Gold Medal in 1 inch at 100 yards. Mine was not so good in factory trim--3 inches or more was typical with most ammo.

The vast majority of the Chinese parts will interchange with USGI, at least as assemblies. For example, a complete GI rear sight assembly drops right into the receiver, even though some individual sight parts will not interchange. Same for gas systems, stocks, trigger groups, flash hiders, etc.

Parts that do not interchange or require fitting are the gas cylinder lock, bolt body (has to be fit), stock liner and screws, rear sling swivel and screw, the castle nut (though these threads are close enough that a GI castle nut will work on a Chinese barrel), and (I'm told) the connector lock.

Were I to get another Polytech M14 clone, first on my priority list would be to fit a USGI bolt, replace trigger components as described above, and replace all springs with USGI. Then I'd consider other changes as money and whim dictate.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

The primary problem with the rifles is an incompatible helix-angle between the receiver and the bolt locking lugs. The bolt locking lugs (the problem is with the bolt, not the receiver) are only supported in the receiver on the very tips of the lugs. Eventually, the metal on those over-loaded lug-tips collapses, and the headspace opens up a LOT, fast! In my Norinco, the headspace opened from a very nice tight 1.632" to 1.644+" (the longest gauge in the set and it was visibly loose!) in less than 50 rds. FWIW, I donated the bolt to Fulton Armory...they used to have pictures of the collapsed bolt lugs on their web-site.

In addition to opening the headspace precipitously, the bolt lugs collapsing also displace the the firing pin extension from the receiver safety bridge, severely compromising or inerting the "out-of-battery" safety feature.

This failure with the Chinese bolt is as inevitable as it is unpredictable. That it will happen is a given....when is the real rub, and the consequences can be catastrophic.

The only real solution involves replacing both the bolt and the barrel with USGI parts.

don't hardly seem worth it.
pretty sure these had all 'merican parts
:)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/114/3...0f3e51.jpg?v=0

You shoot what the PTB let you. That Chinese receiver is as close as you can buy to what you have in the picture that you CAN'T buy. Reality versus rhetoric.

97% of the bad things you hear about the chicoms is Pure B.S.!!! That which is true pertains almost exclusevly to the early imports - about the first 2 yrs or less when they were all metric.
I have never seen any major catastrophic malfunction of a chicom reported on the internet in the past 10 yrs. I HAVE seen such reported on ALL of the "American" rifles!
I have made the following offer many times over the 10 yrs I have been on the internet - Let's have a shoot off, your standard grade sprungfeld against my all original norinco M14SA. We shoot till one rifle malfunctions such that it can not be quickly repaired (fp, extractor etc). The looser pays ALL of the winners expenses AND gives him his rifle (IF he wants it?)! No one has yet taken me up - says a lot for their confidence in the junk factor of my chicom! :super:
I know of chicom semis with over 10,000 rds thru an all original rifle with out any problem. I have a chicom M14 Full Auto and have never had a problem with it. :thup:
Sarge

I had my Poly's bolt replaced with a GI bolt and at the time I also had the rifle steel bedded into a nice looking GI birch stock. It will shoot with any SA standard rifle and better than most. The Fulton article posted by Goo was VERY interesting. Did you notice the guy said he was shooting INDIAN ammo and couldn't fathom how poor his rifle performed. Gimme a break!
:slap:

I just don't like them on General Principle.

ALL Poly's in the US were sold out of the back of a truck in a dark alley. The importer obfuscated his identity. There is not now, nor has there ever been, US factory support. No warranty, no factory service, no factory parts, no nothing. If anything goes wrong, you are on your own.

I might buy a $10 beach umbrella under these circumstances, but a high power rifle that I will be firing 2" in front of my face? I don't think so.

Sure, Springfield Armory Inc may have some problem rifles, but they have been taking care of customer returns for 20+ years, at no charge.

Neal

Yep sprungfeld, fed ord and all the others came with a factory warranty. the chicoms did not.
Course all but sprungfeld has long ago gone belly up - in most cases before their warrenties had expired so lots of good they were if you needed something.
It is Very fortunate for many that their sprungfeld came with a warrenty because they needed it. On the other hand the warrenty deprived chicoms have seldom ever needed any type of warrenty work so not having one was no big deal to the large majority of original owners.
The difference in price allows you to buy a chicom and a couple of thousand rds of ammo for what just the sprungfeld will cost you - ammo always extra.
You just got to have US, bleed. I'll bet a lot of you are driving jap cars and watching jap TV sets - WHY the hell doesn't your product loyalty extend to those items??? They are every bit as good as a sprungfeld rifle. :madsmile:
Sarge

could be they're okay. as long as you don't try to resell it someday.

Thank you all for the info on the Poly Tech. I knew I would receive good opinions on this site.
Semper fi-delis
Tom

Beach umbrellas now? Whatever happened to the Washing Machine or whatever it used to be? I don't understand the "no parts" phrase about the Polytech/Norinco M14 Rifles. What do you do when your Springfield Inc (oldest name in American Firearms BS), Armscorp, USGI M14 or whatever needs parts? I guess that you are then also out of luck as well. Factory service and a warranty isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

No charge factory warranty service from Springfield Inc; well, you are certainly likely to need it. My last Springfield Inc. went back 4 times for the same problem with the receiver and it was finally replaced on the last trip. That replacement was pure luck as I was lucky to get someone sympathetic at Springfield Inc. that really listened and looked at the problem. Had that not have happened, I would probably have eventually had to "eat" that rifle myself, as even letters pleading my case to Mr. Dennis Reese (which were certified) went unacknowledged, along with follow up calls to Mr. Reese's personal assistant Donna (who promised that she'd *get back to me*). As I had mentioned, I finally did get that receiver replaced, but the rifle really should be going back to the factory again as they don't have the barrel indexed correctly. With the sights centered up, it's 8 minutes off at 300 yds. and this rifle will be used at 1000 yds. It's a factory Super Match with McMillan stock and Springfield Armory (not Douglas) Stainless Steel Barrel. I'll pull the barrel myself, roll swage the shoulder and re-install it correctly. I won't take my chances with the factory again. I could end up with the barrel installed correctly, but with another problem upon receipt.

The only reason that I bought Springfield Armory was because of their factory rear lug. If they didn't offer that, I wouldn't buy them, and in reality I probably should be buying that in an LRB Receiver.

I spent from June or so last year until about late March with getting that issue resolved with my Super Match. It's also not the first of their products that I've had to return.

My other rifles are Polytechs, which so far have had NO problems, which is more than what I can say for Springfield Inc. The Polytech receivers are closer to USGI Spec.

Danny

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neal Myers

I just don't like them on General Principle.

ALL Poly's in the US were sold out of the back of a truck in a dark alley. The importer obfuscated his identity. There is not now, nor has there ever been, US factory support. No warranty, no factory service, no factory parts, no nothing. If anything goes wrong, you are on your own.

I might buy a $10 beach umbrella under these circumstances, but a high power rifle that I will be firing 2" in front of my face? I don't think so.

Sure, Springfield Armory Inc may have some problem rifles, but they have been taking care of customer returns for 20+ years, at no charge.

Neal

---

If any of the Americans on the board want to ditch their Chinese M14-type rifles, just ship them to Canada. We are veritably afloat with Norinco M14S rifles. Without the abundance of parts and tooling found south of the border, we seem to have figured out what it takes to make them safe and shooting. There is a forum called Canadian Gun Nutz dot com with plenty of traffic.

I always snicker when I read the Fulton's article. Would you trust a mechanic who can't stop complaining about factory parts?