What a waste. Boyds "replacement" shotgun stocks

So, I got my unfinished walnut in the mail today.
18 ring 97 slide handle - spot on and will work just peachy.

1897 butt. fit up is good, with just enough room to pull tight with a proper slight gap on the shoulder. But, there is no real tenon the full thickness of the wrist like the originals, it's just a ring like the model 12s. Oh well, could be easily dealt with by bedding it. Moreover, there is no room left on the exterior wrist where it meets the receiver. It is dead flush or ever so slightly under. Will work fine. Not much prep left to do on it anyway.

model 12 butt. same as above.

Which brings me to the point in the title. The toe is ALL WRONG! by almost half an inch on both butts! The butt plate screw holes match up with original buttplates. There is either a some excess wood or barely any overhang of the buttplate on the top and sides - plenty to work with. But the f&*% drop to the toe is miserable. Check it out. I have the screw holes aligned.
m97,m12
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I paid an extra 30 bucks on each stock for "X" walnut. I think in general this just guarantees you don't get sapwood with a spray tan. I got some good deep dark purple straight grain on the m97, and some nice compression lines the whole length of both sides of the m12. Here they are with a light wipe of mineral spirits.
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what a waste! I suppose to get my money back I'll need to put some sweat equity in em and sell them - put a proper recoil pad on and a fine finish. Why not just do that and use them myself you say? Well, because the guns have turned out so perfect after slow rust bluing! It would be huge waste of effort to uglify them like that. I have a thread going on the 1897 project (I'll hop over there and post a pic of the finished receiver in a moment). That's the model 12 with a NOS 20" riot barrel on it in the background of the above pics. Here it is before and after...
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Pardon the lint and dog hair on the after pics. It's been sitting idle waiting on wood, and for me to finish the other barrel, slides and mag tubes. You can see the crack in the wrist on the original butt in the usual place. All the way through, going back the whole length of the wrist too. I could epoxy and put threaded rods on both sides then refinish it. This would have been fine if the finish was at least a uniform 30%, but look at it. When I got it it looked like someone vomitted on it, then put it in the case and forgot it. The original 1897 stock has the same crack, in addition to the LOP being cut back by almost 2 inches.

EDIT: I may end up eating my shoe. The original model 12 buttplate was 5.25" long. the new stock is 4.75. The extra repo 97 plate I have is 5.0, and the 2 chewed up originals are 4+7/8 and 4.75ish. None of these appear to be overly sanded. There is still a nice border before the checkering. So, I suppose they made these in different lengths over time, possibly for different LOP stocks? Anyways. I found an eBay seller I bought the repo 97 from selling a model 12 that is 4.75. I haven't seen any other originals or repos for 97 nor 12s listed at 4.75. These should work, as I can see no difference in design between the original 97 and 12 buttplates I have. Will have to plug Boyd's holes but that is the least of the problem. All might just be well after all.

I guess we'll see after then...

Sounds like it’ll all come out in the wash.

However, just thought I’d add, sounds like (just like me) you dislike the look of recoil pads.

I find it’s the ugly ventilated pads that ruin the look of a gun. The solid red/orange rubber pads can look quite nice!

Or you could go really crazy and do something like buffalo horn.

Just a couple options.

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Originally Posted by rcathey

The solid red/orange rubber pads can look quite nice!
Or you could go really crazy and do something like buffalo horn

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You and I have similar taste. I don't like the ventilated ones either. pre64win.com has reproduction red/orange pads. I thought about that. I like your horn idea. Found Mr. Potterfield's video on a making a leather buttpad, but I think I'd make a horn one before I'd do that. We'll see. Hopefully the different sized repop ones on the way will be good nuff.

I've also used the shallow red rubber pads like come standard on a Ruger or Winchester at times. Just a quarter inch thick.

After reading all the descriptions on NC Ordnance Inc. website (they make all the repop buttplates), it appears the Boyds buttstock contours are for the model 12 16/20 gauge, even though the inletting is for 12 gauges.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

model 12 16/20 gauge

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That would make sense...

I bought a Boyd's stock for my early Plainfield M-1 Carbine, it required some epoxy filling at the nose for the bayo clamp to actually clamp, but it's a really nice piece of wood. Of course, YMMV...

Russ

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Originally Posted by RASelkirk

but it's a really nice piece of wood.

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Exactly why I was so disappointed. Mine are stunning for what they are going on. I think it will just barely work. N.C. Ordnance has a template https://gungrip.com/winchester-buttp...12-and-42.aspx. Looks like if I split the difference of the excess top to bottom, I'll have just a few thous., ~.006 at most of wood to remove on the lower sides, and about 1/16"on the bottom. This will hopefully make the checkering border not disappear, and I can make up any more at the top where the screw hole appears to be lower then the original 12 gauge buttplates.

so the 16ga buttplate I ordered will work just fine on the 1897.
They fit the profile of the model 12 close enough too, only Boyds drilled the stock bolt hole so large I'll have to plug and redo it to get the lower buttplate screw in. Hilarious. The diameter of Boyds hole is ~1/4 inch larger than the original. unbelievable. I emailed Boyds days ago. No response.
I'm debating now either cutting my losses on these and just repairing the original stock, or making buttplate from horn...if I can find a good piece.
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after some sulking, I decided on a path forward and began working the 97 stock.
In my parts bin I have an early checkered metal buttplate with the widows peak. While watching the Super Bowl I got most of its curve fit, and just need to settle it back until the toe makes full contact. It has plenty of border below the checkering to grind down flush and not look weird. Needs some delicate filing to clean up but it'll blue up nice I think. I'll need to also glass bed it to the receiver to clean up the slop in the fit.
For the model 12, I'm going the file off the Boyds logo on the generic plastic buttplate that came with it, and give it a high polish. This will allow me to get the project quickly (relative to my shop's clock anyway) finished before I make any final decisions. I don't want to plug and redial the stock bolt hole just to fit a plastic repop buttplate. Brownells sells repop winchester solid red rubber, but is out of stock. My searches for 1/2"+ thick horn blank of suitable size found none. There is a company that offers blank horn buttplates, but out of stock wherever I could find. So I'll wait patiently. I'm leaning heavily towards horn today with lofty goals of checkering it myself or carving it one day, but by the time I finish my morning coffee that mood could change.

I will never buy anything from Boyds again. I sent a polite email and a week gone by with not even an acknowledgment.

The 1897 stock is done. I'll post a pic in that thread.
I'm getting ready to start the model 12. I confirmed again there is no correcting it. Even with the shorter repop buttplate, the lower hole sits over hole for the stock screw - so I'd have top plug that and re-drill higher up, connecting with the existing hole for alignment. No thanks. Moreover, the shorter buttplate will still overhang by 1/8+ inches, and there isn't enough border around its checkering to make it look right.

So, as my coffee brewed, I went on a search again for an alternative. My last search did not yield suitable horn blanks at a reasonable price, but today I found a supplier - x2 blanks, 2"x6"x1/2 thick buffalo horn for $25. And, I found a video too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5A6mBOZncA
Here is a link if it doesn't show up for you...'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5A6mBOZncA'
So that's the plan - sans the starting from raw horn part. I will also not plug over the screws for the obvious reason. I'm not an artist, so no carving other than rounding a bit, with a little curve from heal to toe. I thought about checkering it, but no good way to polish it out when done. Unless maybe if I can impress something in to it by boiling in a form, similar to the video. Nah. My initials on the underside will suffice.

So this is the next stagnated project in line for clearing out. During the long wait, I was able to find an original stock - without a crack in the wrist, still full length with original buttplate - and at a very cheap price. I was also able to source some 1/4 thick buffalo horn plates for ~$30. I think I'm going to forgo the Boyd's stock though in favor of the original replacement I found. Should clean up nice. Save the horn for something else down the road. Sad though. It really is a nice piece of walnut - worth putting a rubber pad on and finishing at least.
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Replacement stock is the shiny one. Bubba clearly sprayed it with a rattle can clear coat.

I have two forends to prep, blue and assemble. The 20" riot barrel is already done in my last update. The original 30" full choke has a small dent - a very hard picture to take when too lazy to get out the borecam. You can make it out where the line is pointing. I've circled the offending area of the exterior. Looks lke it was dropped and maybe scraped a rock. I'll likely wait to polish and blue the barrel until I can rent a dent raiser - which I already need to do for that ithaca SxS I'm nearly done with. Soon, I hope.
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Originally Posted by ssgross

During the long wait, I was able to find an original stock - without a crack in the wrist, still full length with original buttplate - and at a very cheap price.

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A real hen's tooth, that. Never ever would I expect to see one hereabouts.

That is very nice looking rust bluing as you say. Did you do it or get it done somewhere?

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Did you do it or get it done somewhere?

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Thank you. I do all my own rust bluing. Since I found myself doing it regular enough, In my Ithaca SxS thread I built a rig out of pvc tubes, some cheap PID controllers, and couple cartridge heaters off fleabay. In a thread now several years ago when I first started bluing I put some lesson's learned. I think the key takeaway was I never could get steam to give good results, although others swear by it. I use Mark Lee's Express solution almost exclusively now, but I have used others with just as good results. The real advantage is Mark Lee's solution rusts immediately when you go over the area you just wiped with a flame, and then converts in only about 1/2 to 2 minutes in the boil, depending on the type of steel. I've found 4-6 iterations is all it takes - also dependent on the type of steel. Any more than that and the metal will begin losing the perfect satin you made and start to look pickled but with no additional depth of color. A dip in plain kerosene is used after the last carding and then hung up to try overnight. The kerosene 1) is the best water displacing oil I have found and 2) leaves behind a film after it dries in the pores of the bluing, in effect "hardening" the finish and 3) it deepens the color, likely a consequence of (2).

I can see you put a lot of work into the surface prep and it shows!

It would be interesting to see an SMLE finished by that method next to one still in original finish; the colour looks very close to me.

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

a lot of work into the surface prep

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Yes. this is the ticket. Cloth back paper is used, normally wet for big jobs. Comes in rolls at harbor freight or the auto parts store. This is backed by a file for the corse passes - I usually start at 120 wet, after my final draw filing if it was needed. I switch to backing with a wood block for medium grits. For the final pass, I use a rubber pencil eraser. Barrels get a shoe-shine in the final pass. 400 or 600 grit seems to be a good place to stop, but depends on the alloy and the shape of the part. For a barrel, you can usually stop earlier - for a super hard metal maybe quit after 320. Softer materials go finer. In the rare instances I was in a hurry and used the buffing wheel, I always paper polish as above around every screw hole and edge, never go close to those spots with the wheel, and then always finish with a final pass of paper in the correct direction. Yes. There is a "correct" direction to paper polish. I think the real trick is your final pass should be perpendicular to gravity as you go to pull the part out of the boil - perpendicular to the bore for barrels and receivers. If your sanding were parallel to gravity, the water always forms runs which evaporate at a slightly slower rate than the rest of the surface. This can create slightly darker streaks which are hard, often impossible, to blend away during carding especially in the final passes. No, the best finish is obtained like I said, final sanding pass perpendicular. The metal holds the water evenly across the part causing it to roll off in a single sheet as you lift the part out of the boil, hence no streaks. In a pinch, if you do get a streak at the end and don't want to scuff back and start over, the only remedy seems to be a final application of a grease like RIG and some soft buffing with a clean cotton patch. This will make the contrast fade away, but if ever you clean the surface you will likely see the faint streak again.

Why not steam? Some swear by it. I have never been able to control how the part sweats, which is a function of the temperature of the metal when introducing it to the steam, the density of steam used, and the thermal mass of the part. Something thin like a shotgun barrel, no mater the temp of the barrel going into the steam, when I pull it out it cools so rapidly that beads of water form, creating a mottled finish nearly impossible to blend away. Oiling/greasing softens the edges of the spots, but doesn't make them go away. Nope. No steam for me ever again. I wasted many a valuable weekend screwing around with that method because so many internet experts claimed it to be superior. My final impression is it takes a real skill and eye to control the flow of steam at just the right level, and backing off steam at just the right rate before taking the part out to prevent water beading - more skill than I posess.

I was able to get a repop winchester rubber pad, and it will work with the Boyd's replacement stock. I fitted it a couple weeks ago, and started applying finish all the stocks I had on hand. Now I have a real problem - deciding which to use. I'm open to being persuaded at this point.

First up - the original stock that was on the gun. I repaired the crack with threaded pins and acraglas. The finish is my own alkanet stain and red oil. Grain was purposefully not filled, but the dents and scratches were removed to at least make it look used but well cared for. The lighting shows off the repair more than it actually looks in person. It passes the 10ft stare test.
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Second option - the used original stock. Plenty of dents needed steamed outlet and it needed a new buttplate fit. All that is left is to lightly scuff back the final finish and wax.
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Last option - the Boyds stock with repro rubber recoil pad - not affixed in this pic because I have a couple more weeks of finish applications to go. But it's starting to look as is it should.
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I suppose I will need to see them on a fully assembled gun, but I'm still polishing parts between applications of finish on the stocks. Once I decide, I will sell the others, so if anyone on this forum needs a good model 12 stock, shoot me a PM. You can have dibs before I put them on fleabay.

Ok, so boyds' replacements aren't entirely a waste. In addition to the wrong butt length though, there was 0 (zero) material at the wrist to work with. On either side the woods' edge is just barely below the metal.

But I think it came out as good as it could. The fit is a little sloppy unlike the original which is nice and tight, so I will need to bed the socket. You might think I should have done this before finishing, but it is much easier to clean epoxy off of a finished and waxed stock and touch up the finish then it is to clean from bare wood and I was afraid to remove any material around the edges.
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Next up is to blue the forends, and fix and blue the 30" barrel.

Another relic back in service. I'm going to try to get to the range soon to check the chamber ring alignment - barrel is NOS winchester 20" cylinder, not a cutback. On to the 30 inch forend. everything is ready for that except the barrel.
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Very nice, now about 500 rds and wear some of the blue off again...warm it up.

Looking good!

Jeez… that thing looks good!!!

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

now about 500 rds and wear some of the blue off again

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ain't this the truth. On my 97 trench gun, the blueing on the bolt started to heavily wear after not 20 rounds, and after less than 100 the magazine tube started to show the use, even with careful prep with a good grease. After much thought and consideration, I re-blued and rubbed a thin layer of lubriplate's moly grease on all the bearing surfaces - I think the formula name is mo-lith no. 2. After another 100 rounds or so, all these areas still look new, not even a scuff. I've used this on several other projects since, on normally high wear areas, e.g. 1911 rails and bolt raceways, and it greatly prolongs the finish if not completely preventing noticeable wear altogether (on parked finishes, lightly stone these areas smooth first). I highly recommend it, especially on large surface areas like a magazine tube which a slide rubs with every cycle.
https://www.lubriplate.com/Lubriplat...2.pdf?ext=.pdf
They have a dry-lube version called X-357 which I haven't tried yet. I was thinking of trying out on, say, a barrel bushing of a 1911 carry gun.