Just found the Photo of the Mount and the second photo from the Italian theatre:
Attachment 130218Attachment 130219
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Just found the Photo of the Mount and the second photo from the Italian theatre:
Attachment 130218Attachment 130219
That's better resolution than most versions of that photo. Tried to find a clean one from the Archives here but they're behind a pay-wall now apparently. The other photo shows the front end of the base of course, but one would need the original quality to discern the details.
As for how they wrote the dates on the drawings, I think it was Nigel who kindly posted a number of drawings from RSAF(E) done in 1940 for various scope/rifle combinations. I had the impression those were done post-Dunkirk as they seemed to be improvised or stop-gap setups. If those drawings have dates and other info similar to this one, that might clarify the matter.
Odd that they specify the scope has to clear the long-range sight - presumably this was before the Weedon repair program for the P14/No.3 rifles got under way?
Probably that is the base they used though, unless there was thought given to buying up W&S scopes off the American surplus market and re-using those?? Doesn't seem likely, but those were desperate times.
If I remeber correct this photo is in the Canadian National Archive, but I don`t remember the keyword for my search. That I found it, was an accident (my research was about a complete other theme and I was surprised to find this).
Now it is better zu find:
Pte. Jack Bailey of the Perth Regiment, sniping at enemy troops, Orsogna, Italy, 29 January 1944
https://captainstevens.com/wp-conten...C-PA130609.jpg
This is the only other image of a Canadian using a WW I Warner & Swasey scope on a P14 rifle during WWII. Anybody know of a surviving example?
I know the 22 Regiment has a W&S on a Ross, but I'm looking for a P14 with a W&S.
Quoted from the other thread. Anyone have any idea where this surviving rifle with W&S actually exists and its whereabouts?Quote:
As for the P14s with W&S mounted, I've posted before that I have reliable reports of one on the loose here in Canadaicon in the 1960s. My guess would be that it was brought back by a soldier or a battalion as IIRC a document posted here previously refers to a Britishicon requirement that non-No.4 sniper rifles be turned in to stores as No.4(T)s were issued to replace them in late 1943 and early 1944.
I was told about it by a very well informed and very reliable gent, who knew of it in the 1960s. Since this was not something I had directly asked about, there was no likelihood of "suggestion" either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riter
I tried to trace it down at the time, but the trail was too cold.
That's a long time ago. The collector who had it probably crossed the Styx so it may be either be with the family or went to an auction house.
Note it is the same guy, same rifle (and I think maybe even same building, just different place) as the other picture. He even has the same ammo belt slung around his body and you can see the same helmet with net in both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riter
We once had a guy on the forum who posted pictures of his home build of this setup. The attached pictures show how he had attached the rail to his rifle. Pictures in this forum were lost in the great crash.
Was that the same guy who machined one at GunBoards? That stuff would take time but isn't that challenging if you have a milling machine.
For being years back I cannot tell you, sorry. I think there might had been another one since I recall someone milling off a small portion of the protection ears of the rear sight base, but that again is just from deep of my memory.
What is shown IMHO is not much work at all. Buy a Ross M1910 W&S scope rail (PM user Roger Payne, he made reproductions) and just accomodate the feet to the radius of the P.14 receiver, and then just mill off the part of the rear sight base which interferes with the scope. Seems what was done in my pictures above too, though the fitting of the feet wasn't as nice as it should be.
Finally found the thread with the guy who owns a M1917 and has a W&S scope on it. It was a Jouster thread. For having to fear that this forum might be down one day I'll quote the starting post as well as add the pictures to this thread here:
Source: 1917 winchester /1908 warner swaseyQuote:
Hello , I am new to the site, but now from what the wife says I am obsessed . Any way the reason I am posting here today is 35 yrs ago I inherited a 1917 winchester , stamps are all W's . It is fitted with a 1908 warner swasey musket sight #201 stamped ( for rifel # 551.009) unfortunately not matching serial numbers. My questions ... can and where to find serial # info ? Srs? Military issued sniper rifel ? Value ? ... Any info opinions would be greatly appreciated thank you for your time .
Personal comment on it: the rail on this rifle is one from a M1903 rifle. It therefore is sitting much closer to the action, and it seems whoever outcarried the conversion placed the bracket more towards the rear, most possibly to not have to accomodate the front foot to the larger radius receiver ring.
The position of the scope rail is a result of the eye relief and whichever bracket you are using. Since I assume you want to do a build, I'd recommend once more to use the Ross bracket since this one has higher feet and IMHO more likely the one used in the two period pictures. If you btw do, then please do some pictures while doing your build and show us what you had to do to the receiver to make it work!
Thank you! It's a 30-06 M1917 and not a .303 calibre P-14.
I've no intention of building one and don't have a Warner & Swasey sight. It was the epiphany that the P14 with Warner & Swasey is the one sniper rifle that was not discussed in Chapter 13. I missed my chance on paying only $7.50 for the W&S because I wasn't born yet in 1939 when ads appeared in the American Rifleman magazine. I'll have to join Jouster's site and ask for permission to reproduce the images.
The K98k swept-back scope mount in the book was a photograph of a replica, but at least the text said it was for illustrative purposes as the original (hidden somewhere in the US Army's collection) couldn't be located at the time.
Presumably the RSAF(E) base design did not require the receiver milling we see here; apocryphal simulation though this is.
I'm guessing whoever put it together couldn't quite bring themselves to butcher an original Winchester P14.
NEITHER of the two rifles that I had posted pictures of is an original. BOTH are reproductions. NEITHER of the two is my rifle. Of course is the M1917 in .30-06. But due to that the calibration of the M1908 telescope should roughly work anyway :-).Quote:
Originally Posted by Riter