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Recently acquired a no4 mk1* that has an excellent bore and is definitely not a real T rifle. However it has a set of repro pads mounted for a scopebracket which I have already purchased. I would like to buy a repro scope for the mount and have heard varying reviews on quality. Anyone on here have any experience with the offering from RSM? Chinese built but doesn't seem to be criticized too badly. Not sure if you can buy one that wasn't made somewhere in Asia. Any comments appreciated.
If you use the search bar top Rt of the screen these repro's have had a fair bit of coverage some good some not so good. Here's one burst.
https://www.google.com/url?client=in...arl2v4-2qdI3Nv
I've had 2 RSM's, a No32mk2 and No32Mk3.
Both had ok glass, mechanically they were both not usable.
On the Mk2 adjusting the elevation using the tool caused the reticle to bounce all over the place and it never ended where I left it, while dialing the elevation turret the same would happen, it never tracked to the same place twice.
The elevation and windage on my mark 3 also failed, when turning the turrets the markings would also rotate or slip and stay put, meaning constant lost zeroes.
I'm not convinced anyone saying they are ok is actually using them.
Sounds quite authentic. :D The problem of loosening and tightening the locking collars on the drums without moving the reticule is inherent to the design.
Do the replicas have the (lead screw) anti-backlash springs that were added to the originals later in MkI production?
Thanks for the tip. No desire to throw nearly $600 CDN for junk. I wonder if any others are usable as purchased? Read on one forum that there are a few guys capable of going over one of the imports to make it repeat properly.
I know I can't afford an original. Saw one on ebay for $3600 CDN with bracket.
I have an RSM mkII that I happily used for a couple of years. I have no idea if I was extremely lucky or later batches are better but it holds zero and adjustments are repeatable in reality and on the no32 calibration chart.
Some of the repro Mk.II scopes that I have reworked have survived hundreds of miles the wilds of Canada strapped to an ATV and hundreds of shots, if not thousands.
The repro's can be "tarted up" and sometimes you get a good one.
Often what is the problem is people buy the scope, mount and bases then just screw the bases to the receiver attach the scope and mount.
The collimation of the scope and the bore is way out of spec so they just crank the adjustments and eventually bugger up the scope internals.
Parts are not available generally, but I did manage to obtain a few parts and was able to fix up a few to factory spec's, but most of the problems were caused by the owners themselves.
I have always assumed they were to be used on replicas not on a serviceable weapon.
Due primarily to the cost of a real scope, people purchased the Taiwan copies for that purpose of reenactment.
NO copy IMHO can match the British workmanship of the "Originals". Brackets and scope tins hold a different story!
I have no experience of owning any of the repro's - I suppose some of them must be ok...........but from what I have heard & seen there is a huge quality gulf between the originals & the copies. Maybe we shouldn't be too surprised about this. The real ones were made under wartime military contracts when the UK was fighting for its very existence, whereas the repro's are made by enterprising Pacific Rim companies who have seen an opening in the market in which they can make some money. And the cheaper they can produce the scopes the more profit they make......
I suppose what I am trying to say is that the originals were made up to a standard & the copies (I suspect) are made down to a price. I always bore this old axiom in mind when I was getting my No32 brackets made.....
Out of curiosity, I wonder what the retailers are like in replacing scopes which have been purchased & then found to be defective??
This is probably a convenient time to mention that any replica scopes would not be eligible in NRA (GB) competitions at Bisley; whilst they would be allowed to enter an NRA sniping competition their scores would be for "honours" only and not qualify for the competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
I have done a few, albeit by default! Screws threaded into thin brass were useless. Never truly happy with any of the results. After the first miserably failed the standard 'fastness' test, I never subjected another to it. The No32's would just take it all in their stride.
Save twice to buy once I say. Even a rusty old No32 with a beat-up tube and double focus can be resurrected. Not so an Asian copy. Just my opinion of course Think Mickey Mouse watches. Good to look at but not so good when it comes to telling the time.
While there is still demand, maybe now is the time for an entrepreneur to start converting No42's or 53's to the simplified Mk3 spec. Simplicity itself with current CNC facilities.
Ask me for detais
I restored a No4t and started shooting it with repro scope and mount. Accuracy was okay, but nothing to get excited about. I put an original Mk2 scope and mount on the rifle and groups shrank astonishingly. In my experience, the originals are the best. Don't waste your time and money on junk.
Anyone have experience with the replicas sold by Waffenmeisters? -
https://www.waffenmeisters.com/optic...-mounts-c-83-1
They offer both Mk. 1 & 2 versions. The Mk.2 looks a lot like Numrich's current offering. Numrich's current Mk.2 is made in Taiwan they told me. Waffenmeisters told me theirs are made in Taiwan by a "reputable defense contractor using Japanese optics" plus come with a 1 year warranty.....maybe the same place Numrich gets theirs from?
A warranty sounds pretty good compared to sending your money to China and being SOL if you have issues. Numrich has no warranty on theirs.
Exactly what i did in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Attachment 130554Attachment 130555Attachment 130556
That scope is not even HALF as bad as several of those that have come my way, believe me.
A genuine in woorse condition than that is better than a repro, any day, I say. Just my opinion though
Why not put a cheap 4 power scope on it like a Weaver to get you mobile then save up for a good MK 3/32 scope that way you can shoot the rifle then on sell the scope when you get your proper No32.
There is a filler called Lab-Metal which is claimed to produce a smooth and indistinguishable surface under powder coating, so that could be the way to deal with extreme pitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by S12A
Powder coating probably being the closest substitute for Suncorite these days.
I think JB Weld is similar. I recently had to redrill the locking screw hole in an objective shade for a No32 Mk1 & I used JB Weld for the first time for filling in the old hole. When rubbed down, lightly bead blasted, & lastly suncorited, it really looked the part.....
Many fillers don't take suncorite very well & look a different colour once the paint is dry.
However, if pitting is not too deep I spend the time it takes in carefully striking out as much as I can using a Swiss file, & being careful not to put flats in the scope tube. You just have to accept it's going to take time....
J.B. Weld is very good for filling, but I was told it would not work under powder coating; hence my inquiries which led me to Lab Metal. I have a tin, but haven't had reason to use it yet.
I polished a few No32 tubes on a wood lathe by mounting between a dead center in the spindle and a live center in the tail stock. The cone of the dead center fit the objective end of the stripped tube and the cone of the body on the live center happened to be about the right size to fit into the ocular lens retaining ring. One had to be careful not to put too much pressure on the tube or the files/paper!
It might be beginners luck then, but the suncorite seems to have 'taken' over the JB Weld. I use a broadly similar method to hold No32 tubes in my Myford, but the pitting on the Ex Indian scopes is very variable so I do much of it by hand, especially where there is pitting fairly close to the markings.
That might well be the best option then, for those with access to Suncorite. For those without, look for a substitute or powder coat... Powder coating needs 350-400 degrees F to cure, so presumably JB Weld won't stand up to that, or just won't provide an impervious enough surface that the powder coat finish is the same as on metal surfaces(?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
I have no information on cerakote etc., but that might be another option with the Lab-Metal or JBW.
There are automotive primers that will/advertised to take the 350 to 400 deg. heat
I have been working with one company for some time and once they get it perfected I will give the tube restorers the name.
It is used for the restoration of antique automobile panels after bead/sand blasting, chemical cleaning and then baked finishes similar to powder coat and cerakote.
These are show cars and not street rods and watching them finish a panel is unbelievable in time and effort.
So far I have taken the product to 350 plus and no problems but I want to take it higher and see the results.
Time, where does it all go.....
What Peter Laidler said.
I don't have any direct experience with the Red Star Mountain replicas of the No. 32 scope, but I do have some experience with [somebody's -- no idea who the perpetrator is] Far Eastern replicas of the German / Czech ZF4 scope used on several German WW2 guns including the G43. In fairness -- if we knew these replicas were made in Japan, I'd buy them in a heartbeat -- I can't think of a single Japanese product that disappoints, especially in the field of optics. But I think it's a safe bet these are not made in Japan -- that country is by no means a "low cost" producer.
My G43 was sold by an alleged G43 Guru as having a genuine modern Czech repro. Said guru was either lying or willfully ignorant because the thing was obviously a Turd World copy. When cranking the elevation drum, the pointer (visually like the pointer in a No. 32) described not a straight up-and-down line but a sort of S-shaped curve -- think of a hysteresis curve or an "integral" symbol from high school calculus. And not by some small amount -- it was many minutes of arc -- more than the apparent size of a standard target.
This being unserviceable, I found a new, recent repro made by Meopta in the Czech Republic, at the same factory (in WW2 operating under the name Optikotechna) that made them for the Germans in WW2. The Czech repro works fine.
Out of curiosity, I took both scopes to the local courthouse where they have a scanning device to check for nasties being smuggled into the building. I asked the sheriff's deputies there to compare the two. I took photos. The insides are not even remotely similar. The Far East repro was designed to be cheaply made.
I eventually sold the Far East repro, with full disclosure that it's unserviceable trash, to somebody who wanted it for stock. It's his karma, not mine. I think it would be perfect for "re-enactors" -- people who run through the woods pretending.
My own No. 32 works astoundingly well. And no wonder, since Peter Laidler himself overhauled it! :) (Thanks ever so much, again, PL!)
I just looked at Red Star Mountain's web site. What total thieving trash. They even have copies of ancient Swiss K31 diopter sights (far better to buy the redesigned American ones from Swiss Products; or a genuine Swiss vintage one for less than the fake); a ripoff of Swiss Products' K31 clamp-on scope rail; repros of the scope for the M1903 Springfield (why not just buy a genuine Lyman or Weaver as allowed by the rules...) even fake stock discs for Swedish Mausers. Geez. Yup. They're in Shanghai.
The two takeaways from my long-winded story:
1) Avoid cheap Far Eastern repros. Of anything.
2) Peter Laidler knows whereof he speaks. If he says they're trash, then they're trash.