This one looks interesting. Comments?
By Sword and Musket ..(f 845)
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This one looks interesting. Comments?
By Sword and Musket ..(f 845)
I'll hold onto it for them until the sort themselves out...
Its a beauty for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I'm sure that in the last 3 1/2 years they will have found out more (or not) and sold it.
It's been discussed on here many times, it was assumed that EX stood for Exhibition rather than Experimental. What is 'Experimental' about it?
The woodwork has been butchered on the left side of the receiver.
It's a basic Number 4 with an unusual serial number, that's all, IMHO and certainly not worth what is being asked for it, hence it hasn't sold in years of being advertised.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=31316
I've never seen LB wood look like that, but I have seen Savage wood look close to this. I think this one has had some "effort" put into mottling the wood.
They have certainly sanded down the left side to within an inch of its life, just because it has no primer ring on the bolt means squat a brand new correctly fitted bolt head will sort that out.
Is that a gouge on the left side of the forestock or a crack near the cross pin, they all want stuff to be special I should try and see if Skennerton says anything about this EX11 in any of his books.
There is a very bad crack on the left side. [edited to add](In reviewing the photos from the 2012 thread, it was originally relieved for a central sight base (which has been sanded out) the crack has grown since the original photos)Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
The fact is that Skennerton saying anything about this rifle (or many others) really doesn't matter as much of his "north american production" chapter is based on collector observations and theories rather than documentation.
In reference to this specific rifle, in my (not so) humble opinion, it looks like legit 1941/42 production (except for the bolt body which is 1942 or later). I would price it as a 1941 LB rather than anything special.
If I was purchasing it, I would pull the fore-end off and examine the markings on barrel and internal parts.
Having said that, I know where there is an never serial numbered 1941 LB action and bolt - it would not be difficult for me to source all the (correct) parts to build this rifle - I could serial number it as EX-0 perhaps?
Aside from everything else, if it was a factory assembled 'experimental' rifle, why did Long Branch need to recycle a used bolt body? The serial 'EX 11' looks to have been applied to a flat that has been linished/filed, presumably to remove an earlier serial number. A little puzzling........
& whilst there will always be exceptions, most experimental markings were engraved, not hand stamped.
Fancy tiger striping, some one had fun with a propane torch.....matches the rest of the rifle,...... rubbish.
Mention is made of the short spacing between the rear swivel and buttplate. I wonder if the wood surface under the buttplate is machined finished as one would expect or hand cut?
If we look at the earlier version of this very same rifle in the other thread shown in post #4 you see there was an extension that has been removed from this very same butt and the round cocking piece/lady slipper safety have been added. Hard to say what else has been changed to make a factory original special experimental rifle original again. To be fair, no one said it was original and the other thread speaks of the changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiriaq
Always a wealth of real world knowledge here which I take on board as to me gained knowledge from practical experience in the real world (Which I emphasise) is a marker for anyone with doubts or legitimate questions on the Lee Enfield line.
Has anyone seen what is hiding under the fore-end?
Nothing on the exterior looks terribly "experimental", apart from the mottled wood.
I vaguely recall that the Canadians were experimenting with different trigger arrangements, including one that had a distinctly "Mauser-ish" look about it. Some of this tinkering also washed up on the J5550" Ultra-light carbine" prototypes.
Just my South-Seas Shekel's (Oz Dollar) worth.
"The woodwork has had some time spent upon it in forming the tiger-stripe pattern but it has been done perfectly."
Well, not so perfectly...
Wasn't that forend floating around a few years back with a big, ugly relief cut for a Central sight base in it? A 60 or 80 grit massage?
It's so special that comments have been turned off (see bottom of page)
Pity the photos are tiny, but bandwidth is so expensive these days. :lol:
Different fonts on bolt and butt socket and the lack of a hole in the knob makes it a bolt for a Mk.I* rifle, not a Mk.I.
That large dent in the back edge of the socket, which could not have occurred with a butt fitted, suggests a 1941 barrelled(?) body/receiver found floating around loose and, and the rest as they say is ... fiction?
The burble below implies a RSAF(E) waisted sight protector is fitted.
Position of the butt swivel is odd indeed. Not even a Bantam butt has the swivel that close to the plate IIRC.
Trigger guard has the screw for a swivel - either a RSAF(E) trials Model C rifle part or a very early LB part; I don't remember now if they made any of those in the early days. Either way, the lack of a swivel is odd given so much creativity shown elsewhere!
The rear screw on the trigger guard is too short as well.
Quote:
Chambered in .303 Ten-shot detachable box magazine. Marked on LHS of the wrist “EX11” and on the rear of the curved bolt arm. Solid bolt arm knob, round cocking piece. The shoe of the cocking piece marked with “12345” and the “LB” Longbranch logo. LB marked bolt head also marked (sized) “1”. Longbranch marked and shaped safety catch fitted to rear LHS of action. Outer wall of action marked as follows; “No 4 Mk 1 / LONG BRANCH / 1941.” Bolt face clean, appears unused – no primer ring.
Overall the rifle measures 43.5/8.” The round barrel 25.1/4.” the trigger Pull to center is 12.1/2? Stocked in a beautiful tiger-striped stock with a fluted hand guard over the barrel. The guarded front sight is waisted, the actual dove-tailed sight block marked with LB logo. The muzzle has bayonet lugs attached. The front band is War Department and inspector marked. Finish on all the components is extremely fine – no rust or wearing about the edges.
The butt-stock is fitted with a brass butt-plate with a trap for the cleaning bottle and pull-through. Brass oil bottle present the turn-screw top is marked with the rifles EX number and a trace of the Canadian acceptance mark which is repeated on the base of the bottle. The rear sling swivel is very close to the end of the butt and the brass butt-plate – less than 1/2?.
Standard rear sights with battle sight and ladder aperture sight. The face of the sight is marked with both the LB logo and the Canadian acceptance mark. It is graduated from 200 to 1300 yards – functions well. Canvass webbing sling marked “MADE IN CANADA” with brass fittings. It is possible with care to see the Canadian acceptance marks on the underside of the woodwork at the wrist and at the muzzle end of the fore-end. There is the slightest crack in the woodwork, just forward of the safety catch, on the LHS of the fore-end.
Finish on everything is very good with strong blacks and blue. The woodwork has had some time spent upon it in forming the tiger-stripe pattern but it has been done perfectly. The action is mechanically fine and the bore is beyond belief – it is so good. A very interesting and highly important piece for the advanced collector. Viewing highly recommended for serious buyers.
Stock number F 845
Due to emerging information indicating this may be actually far more interesting than first thought it is suspended from sale at this time until deeper investigation completed.
Comments Off on Experimental No 4 Rifle by Longbranch………..(f 845)
British brass buttplate? I've never seen a Canadian made one. Rob is very observant as the rear TG screw is a front sight guard screw. Theyn are shorter. The only front sight guard screw that's the same as the rear TG screw were used on Savage stamped front sight guards. Fancy birch wood. I have a nos fancy walnut butt from LB. Purchased with several other normal ones off the cuff from BRP in Winder, Georgia. I need a forend and handguards to go with it and I could assemble a nicer rifle than the one in question. My point is the fancy wood turned up in normal production.
I used to own this rifle and when I bought it it had the tiger stripe stock and apart from the receiver I don’t recall there being much in the way of Long Branch parts on the rifle. It’s definitely been added to and bits swapped over. There was a cut out of the stock for a target sight.
That's still apparent but they skimmed over that area without mention. If you look at the last pics and expand to 300% it becomes clear. So this rifle isn't what they claim at all, just a pretty rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by bravo2zero