Italian Vetterli Model 1870/87 Carbine Caliber 10.4x47mmR

They put these on sale and I took a chance on another RTI rifle last week and came out a winner again. I'm four for four. Rifle is in better shape than I expected to be honest. I haven't taken it apart yet but everything appears to be present and working. The only issue with it was the rear sight which had a bent pin and a crooked spring arm. Took about 10 minutes to fix.

It's filthy, the bore was dark but a few dry pads though it and it's shiny with strong rifling. Bayonet fit perfectly. No rust that I can see, not much finish either. Doesn't look like they wire wheeled it.

One issue with these that I'm aware of is at least two individuals got rifles with 6.5 bolts so that's the first thing you should check.

This is just the standard order, no $100 extra for hand select.

I really like the look of these little carbines.

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It looks pretty good! I bought one of the full length rifles from RTI. After the extensive cleaning of filth, other than No metal finish above wood, the rifle is in very good condition!! Mine is shooting pretty well with the limited loading I’ve done. I’m using a BB lead bullet from Paper Cartridges. It’s intended for the Swiss rifle. I’ve adjusted the 10.4 Swiss dies to work with the longer case as well.
I would really like to see yours with the bayonet!
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Where did you get the cases? I’ll take more photos including the bayonet after I get it cleaned up in a few days. I haven’t had time to do much more than wipe some of the exterior grim off.

I got the cases from https://www.ammunitionartifacts.com/. But I don’t see them listed currently. The formed cases bore no real resemblance to the fire formed cases after the first loading!!
If hound the bayonet that in on the rifle. It seems it was used later and likely the time these rifles were in Ethiopia!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...84d71a28e7.jpg
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That bayonet is for the 1870/87/15. They were cut down from the full length ones. The full length ones are hard to find. I don't have a scabbard for mine but at least I had the bayonet before I bought the rifle this time. Probably a couple hundred these days if you can find one.

I got home and decided to take some quick pics for you since it might be a while till I get it cleaned.

Another bayonet that is off to the side somewhat, not as bad as my Werdle though.

That brass website has several that I need but wow, a bit expensive. I may end up getting some in the end anyway.

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I took it apart and got some preliminary cleaning done. I did find some light rust on the interior of the action that came off with a brass brush. Everything under the wood line looks like the day it was modified. No pitting, no rust, nice bluing. I did discover a missing part. Not sure what it's called but it's essentially a nut that holds the bottom plate on. I will see if I can find a modern one I can modify to work. Looks like below photo.

https://i.imgur.com/6syYlHo.jpg

Yes, I assumed the bayonet I have was for the conversion to 6.5 /70/87/15. But, it was in good shape and fit perfectly! Likely these were used on these rifles as well. I wish I could pull the trigger on a shortened carbine like yours! It would be a handier arm to shoot and carry!!
When I cleaned mine, the dirt, sand and. Bugs stuck in the old dried grease was amazing! But, the metal is bright as well as the bore! And you see it shoots with promise! That is a smokeless load and is close to the sight alignment. I tried BP and it shot off to the left and low. Not as good a pattern either.
The brass I bought is expensive. I believe with the 10.4 Swiss dies (Lee dies) I could rework 8x50R Lebel or .348 Win brass to work.
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Here is the nuts original. It may be you could match the threads on a modern nut and try shaping like the original.

I have it all cleaned and put back together minus the screw and nut. Will try to find a nut that will work and hopefully be able to shape it properly. What amazed me is all the screws on this came out. Only had one that was tight and I almost gave up on it but tried one last time and it came out. No bugs in this one but I know what you mean, the last rifle I got from them had bugs in it. I have to check to see if I have Swiss 41 dies. I think I might have bought them years ago but never got around to converting my bolt to centerfire.

They are a fun rifle! Good history all the way from 187o to WWII!! And beyond in Ethiopia!!

I bought a wing nut that was the right thread size and cut the wings off and shaped it a little. It's a little small but it will do until I can find an original.

https://i.imgur.com/szahTVP.jpg

Good job! Looks pretty good! Good luck on making ammo! I’m in the process of moving . Won’t have any stuff for reloading available for a couple months. I look forward to your shooting progress!

Looks awesome! I just received a Vetterli from RTI as well but one of the 6.5 conversions. I am having a hard time finding ammo and have not learned how to reload my own yet but that time may be upon me to learn lol.

If you can see your way to build your own ammo, the 10.4x47r is the better if the two. The 6.5 conversions are considered marginal for shooting with factory ie military ammo.

The 6.5's tend to go boom and not in a good way. C&R Arsenal blew two of them up. Lots of excuses why but I'm not firing mine. They were considered emergency use when made and pawned off on colonial troops after WWI was over.

Can I get your permission to use a photo of your TS carbine in an article I'm preparing? It will be credited in any manner you desire.

gunz1948@gmail.com

Mille grazie

C&R broke two by using the wrong bullets and loads in their handloads . They broke them by not knowing what they were doing , not the rifles fault .

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Originally Posted by bob q

C&R broke two by using the wrong bullets and loads in their handloads . They broke them by not knowing what they were doing , not the rifles fault .

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So do you think standard PPU 139 grain FMJ factory loads are safe to shoot in the 6.5 Vetterli Carcano conversions?

I have zero desire to fire mine. I have no need to fire it. I have 9 other actual Carcano's I could shoot first before this on. I have it for my collection but that's all.

If I had a major boating accident, lost the 9 Carcano's along with every other firearm I own, and society collapsed, and I had only the 6.5 conversion and a box of ammo and I needed to hunt deer with it I would.

It's a risk vs reward type of thing. Take a needless chance to injure a hand or eye or starve to death? Lots of others are perfectly willing to do the first, I'm not.

I had a single shot Vetterli back in about 1985/86 and used to shoot it regularly with ammo I had to make from scratch. I used Winchester 348 cases cut at the shoulder and made into a pyrodex blank, loaded a soft cast lead 240 gr 429 bullet over it. Just did it separate loading and it shot fine. At 200yds it could stay in about twelve inch square.