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Attachment 131306
I’m looking for help in deciphering the stock disc on my EFD built No1 Mk3*.
One suggestion was the Royal Montreal Regiment, but that doesn’t account for the “B.”
I assume the 10 29 is the date of issue.
What is the significance of the “E” at the top and the “2” at the bottom.
Any and all help is greatly appreciated!
My take on this is, Royal Montreal Regiment, B Company.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstreak
Rocky Mountain Rangers would be another guess.
172nd Battalion (Rocky Mountain Rangers), CEF... Not RMR.
SMLE's were not on issue in Canada before WWI.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
That level of detail, whatever it may refer to, is never seen on WWI CEF marking discs IME.
Therefore it is almost certainly a post-WWI militia battalion issue.
It may well be Royal Montreal Regiment, but I see no proof.
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
The Abbreviation for Rocky Mountain Rangers is R.M.R.S. I just scoured "The Broad Arrow" and R.M.R. according to the book is the Royal Montreal Regiment but, and this is a big BUT the Royal Montreal Regiment did not come into being until April 1, 1920. Prior to that it was named the 58th Westmount Rifles and was raised on Nov. 2nd, 1914. The chance that a No.1 MkIII* still had its butt disc is slim although there is the slight possibility, albeit slim that when the 58th Westmount Rifles changed to the RMR they might have installed a new butt disc....but then you have to ask who was issuing SMLE's to Canadian Regiments in 1929?
Fact is most didn't have a name until then or even later (1922) when the directive came out to drop the number system of the CEF and adopt a name. Even then it was a dragged out process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
In the Broad Arrow MkII if it was sent to Canada which is borne out of the Broad Arrow within the C then the "E" denotes a Canadian ordnance depot at Esquimalt.
The RMR is correct as its in the Broad Arrow MKI & II.
I'm not convinced that E stamped on the butt disc, lacking further stamps such as N or CN (Canadian Navy) is proof of this rifle finding it's way to an ordnance depot at CFB Esquimalt. It's a long way from Montreal QC to Victoria, B.C. Do you have any citations for your assertion?Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
You're right about that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
The stock disc is marked the the 2nd Battalion, Royal Montreal Regt - B COY.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
The single letter above the issuing date on Canadian marked rifles denotes what city and NOT what base. The 2nd Bn RMR also had a small elements from and also located at.....Edmonton. It was spread far and wide!. The 2nd Battalion was disbanded in the 1930s and raised again for WW2.
Even in the mid-1920s, Canadian Militia still had Ross rifles and it was reported in the Militia 1920/1921 yearly report, that there was 90,000 Ross Rifles and 104,000 SMLEs in Canada. The Ross rifles were going to be phased out of Militia service and SMLEs were to be spread around to the other militia units. The SMLEs were in storage having just had the last shipment sent from Britain in 1921. Also on the topic of butt discs, nearly all Mk.III* rifles being produced up to that point still had butt discs. They were just not being unit marked during overseas use. Certainly in Canada, Britain, NZ and Australia in the 1920s and 1930s, marking of butt discs became a fairly common thing to do. Australian rifles can be hit and miss on that as they generally stamped the military district on the receiver but occasionally one can see a butt disc marked. During WW2, there was all removed or new ones placed on etc.
A chap has come up with some wonderful information on Canadian marked rifles and bayonets etc;
https://www.enfield-stuff.com/Pages/...ueue/qCAN.html
Looking at the page you posted a link to has led me to find an erratum in Mr. Skennerton's book, "The Broad Arrow Mk2". He has the Governor General's Body Guard stamp listed as C.G.B.G. while the brass disc photo on the page you linked clearly has it as G.G.B.G. which makes more sense. In Mr. Skennerton's defense, he has always admitted there are errors and omissions in his books and this is clearly a spelling error.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyboy82
I guess with the amount of research Ian has done and given to the community at large about the Lee Enfields small errors are bound to crop up simple as a typo can you imagine sitting down to proof read his latest expanded edition on the Lee Enfield rifle.
Think we'll let Ian have that one.:super:
Thanks everyone for offering up their knowledge, much appreciated. So much history wrapped up in a small brass disc. Very enlightening, thanks all!
As Ian readily admits, there are some typo's etc in the books, but the main reaon for incorrect data is that it was "based on information available at the time". The expansion of the internet and the vast number of global collectors have now made much new information, particularly documents, available.
It s easy to criticise any book, the hard part is research & writing the book and getting it 99,99% correct.
As Peter Laidler once commented "once someone has read your book they now know more than you do - they have taken everything you have given them, to which they have added their own little kernel of knowledge"
I hope I didn't come across as being critical of Mr. Skennerton, the man is a giant and I have nothing but immense respect for him and his body of work. I am not worthy enough to carry his jock strap after a Rugby match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
Just the reverse - there are those who take the LE Books written by Ian as the 'holy gospel' and that every word written is correct and should never be questioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
There are a number of stories and internet myths that have subsequently been proven to be incorrect. One of the biggest "myths to bust" has been the 'FACT' that Ishapore used a superior grade of steel for the 2A / 2A1 rifles compared to that specified for the No1 Mk3
It took the proof master (Rtd) from the Ishapore factory to confirm what was actually used ( spoiler - a grade of steel giving worse performance and twisted actions until they reverted back to the No1 Mk3 steel)
Good point about always adding knowledge. I've had a few chats with Skenny and I'll be catching up with him this week. I told him about a 1914 Lithgow I have with a rarely seen Canadian sold out of service mark and even he had never seen it before. I have studied the early allocation of rifles in Australia and Ian wasn't aware of the details that I have managed to find. One thing that I do find annoying and I see this on Facebook a lot....is when someone asks a question and people with little to no knowledge at all will throw in their 2 cents and now someone is 'armed' with incorrect information about a rifle etc and they will then take that as gospel.....and pass that on themselves.
An example for me is that 'CMF' on the butt of Lithgow stands for 'Citizens Military Force'....it doesn't, it stands for 'Commonwealth Military Forces' and now 99% of people tell others incorrect information about what that means. And they will all say "It was in Ian Skennertons book!".